5. He Was Not a Great Playmaker
Michael Jordan wasn’t a horrible playmaker – although he was often selfish with the ball, he did average about 5 assists per game for his career. Still, his playmaking abilities left much to be desired, as his strategy was often to use his virtuosic scoring to lead his teams to victory, rather than to pass the ball to teammates in order to create difficult switches for the defense. This strategy only worked well when he had Pippen and either Horace Grant or Dennis Rodman to contribute to a deep defensive run, and did not work in the 80s before the Bulls drafted Scottie Pippen.
4. He Constantly Lost in the 1980s
Young Isiah Thomas – Photo by spablab Via Flickr Creative Commons
Michael Jordan lost to the Detroit Pistons three straight times in the playoffs from 1987-1990, and never made it to the finals in the era of the “Showtime” Lakers, Bird’s deeply talented roster of Celtics, Erving’s 76ers, and a Utah Jazz team that was in their dominant prime. In the 1980s, NBA teams were much better and much deeper than they were in the 1990s, mostly due to the fact that the 90s were littered with low-quality expansion teams, as previously mentioned in this article.
3. Several Other Players Are Qualified for the Throne
Photo by cliff1066™ Via Flickr Creative Commons
Bill Russell led his team to eleven championships, Wilt Chamberlain actually averaged 50 points and 25 rebounds one season, Magic Johnson could play point guard as well as he could play center, Larry Bird was both an offensive threat and a great playmaker who dominated in the 1980s, and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar is the all-time scoring champion with an equal number of championship rings to MJ and even six MVP trophies on top of that. I am not saying that Michael Jordan is definitively not the greatest NBA player of all time, but there are several other players who could compete for that title. Even Lebron James is a more efficient shooter and better playmaker than Michael ever was.
2. In 1998, the NBA Was Really Bad, Giving the Bulls An Easy Path to Be Number One
Photo by supportcaringllc Via Flickr Creative Commons
The 90s are mistakenly seen as a golden era of basketball – in 1998, the year MJ won his sixth title, there were six teams that did not make it past twenty wins. Wow! That means over 20% of the NBA lost more than sixty games, marking one of the least talented years of NBA basketball in all of sports history. Michael Jordan essentially cake-walked to the playoffs and to the finals that year, as the league was very one-sided in favor of just a few teams.
1. After His First Retirement, His Bulls Were Practically As Good As Before He Retired
Photo by Dubi Kaufmann Via Flickr Creative Commons
When a great player leaves his team, typically the team falls apart after he leaves. This can be seen in a number of instances: when Lebron left the Cavs in 2010, the Cavs record dropped by over 40 wins the following season. When Shaq left the Lakers, they had difficulty making it to the postseason the first few years following his departure. And even as recently as this past season, the Celtics have become a shell of themselves after Pierce and Garnett left.
So when the “greatest player of all time” left the Chicago Bulls after his first retirement, you would imagine they lost by like, at least 20 more games the following season, right?
In actuality, led by the defensive grit of Scottie Pippen, the Bulls dropped only two more games than in the previous season. Yeap, you read that right, two games. With Michael Jordan in the 92-93 season, the Bulls had 57 wins, and in the 93-94 season without Jordan, they had a “paltry” 55 wins. Don’t you think that after the “Greatest Player of All Time” retires, his team would completely sink without him? Think again.
Cover Photo by Jason H. Smith Via Flickr Creative Commons
The only two players who contest Jordan are Lebron James and Kobe Bryant… Which one would you say beats him out?
No….just no.
You obviously dont know nothing about basketball lol
Do you know Wilt (Has 56 nba records by himself), Bill Russell (11 titles most ever), Kareem Abdul Jabbar (6 MVPS most ever, 6 titles)
Wilt and Russell came along when there were very few 7 footers in the NBA the average height back then was 6 foot
No expansion teams , harder to make the NBA. Better quality players no advantage of 3 pt line. Jerry west Oscar Robinson Elgin Baylor Bob Cousy Earl Munroe Bill Bradley !!!!!
Tougher league to make in those days !!!!!
The average player today is waaaaay more athletic and trained then the players back then. Playbooks are way craftier too. The great would still be great but less would shine in the later years if they were dropped from their era into the 90’s. The big difference like with anything. The Originators are always great but most of them started playing basketball at a later age. Today they start at 3 years old.
You know what scratch all that of what I typed. Take Jordan and put him in their era. Who would guard him? (end of story)
no, the average height was 6’6″, the average today is 6’7″, the average center height back then was 6’10”, bill russell was average height for his position, there was even a 7’3″ player in the league that didnt even average 5pts and 5rbs per game so your statement is invalid
That’s not true. The average was one inch less than it is today.
Think again. You are just spewing back up the lies you’ve heard. They were plenty of good, big 7 footers then.
The 3 best big man ever bill, wilt, kareem.
Jordan carried his team to a 62-20 record with Scottie Pippen out for much of the season (33 games). You are also wrong about him not playing Ewing or Miller in a conference finals. I saw Jordan play in person. I watched him growing up. He went to college at North Carolina when I was 11-12 years old. I remember him coming into the league. I saw him evolve over the years. He was a perfect 6 for 6 with 6 finals mvps and none of the other top 50 players can say that. In fact, NO ONE can say that. Every one of those players with multiple trips lost at some point. Not Jordan. If the league was watered down, then how come the other players who are so-called greater than Jordan, not go 6 for 6, or even 3 for 3? They played during his time. Where are their multiple finals mvps. Jordan led his team all time in assists, so there’s your answer to whether he just a ball hog. How do you become the all time leader in assists for an entire franchise, as a SHOOTING guard?
Clifford Ray, Willis Reed, Artis Gilmore, Nate Thurmond
That is an ignorant comment. School yourself then come back.
Wilt Chamberlain has 72 NBA records and 68 he holds by himself.
You don’t know anything. When bill Russell won his champions there were like 9 teams in the whole NBA. Hardly impressive.
However what was impressive was Russell did win with the entire city of Boston hating him. They cheered when they won, but Russell could never go out in public. Jordan was loved even by new York fans so its totally different. That’s why Russell never smiled in the 60s.
Thank you
Bill Russell’s 11 rings , multiple 49 rebound games 15 pts per game
It’s all about the rings baby ( coach Parcels)
Why is Russell so disrespected !!!!!!!
Because their was only like 10 teams and the Celtics, outside of Wilt, had all the talent
Why are you quoting an NFL coach in an article about the best NBA player of all time?
Wow, to the author – that could be one of the worst and unjustified sports article I have ever read. Is this part of the show “What would you do?” I’m waiting for some guy to come around the corner with a film crew and say – “No, just kidding, that’s not a real article you read.”
Of all the horrible points you make, perhaps the worst is that Teams were diluted – tell that to Kareem, Bird, Magic, K. Malone, Stockton, Miller, Dumars, Barkley, Drexler, Ewing, McHale, Moses M., Hakeem, Shaq, Parish, D. Robinson, Isiah, & Worthy. Lets see, add Jordan himself back to this list, plus Rodman and Pippen, and we have 21 of the top 50 NBA Players of all time that played in Jordan’s Era. What a weak field!
I won’t waste time with his many accolades. For someone who writes about sports for a living, I suggest you go back and look at both his season and career achievements. Add to that issues that don’t appear in statistics including being a Player/Coach; Desire; Inspirational Leader; Intimidating Defender; and Redefining his Game throughout his Career. But in the end, it comes down to this – Nobody, and I mean Nobody, wanted to win more and did more to win. And when the game was on the line, there is absolutely no comparison with any other player living or dead. Nobody, and in many cases even after being Double or Triple Teamed, could stop Jordan. When the Game was on the line, with one shot to go, there was one Player EVERYONE knew who was going to get the ball. The crowd knew it, the other team knew it, and they just couldn’t stop him. His name transcended the Sport for the Brand he propelled to Catastropic Levels, but also because he was the Best, everyone knew it, and they couldn’t stop the inevitable.
Most of those 18 players you mentioned played isolated on their own team (not to mention that Ewing, McHale, Shaq, Worthy, Moses M., Bird, Kareem, Miller – who beat MJ, Parish and Robinson never met Jordan in even a Conference Finals much less the Finals, this leaves an old Magic, Malone, Stockton, Dumars, Barkley (alone), Drexler (alone), and Isiah) against Jordan and Pippen (during Pippen’s absence Jordan failed to make it past the first round…duh this is a good fact) and later on Dennis Rodman who is one of the best pure hustlers in the history of the game. And as an inspirational leader, just remember his punching of teammates such as Steve Kerr, so great leading there. His intangibles such as sharing the ball and being a good teammate are abhorrent. Who was his coach for a long part of his championship runs? Phil. Jackson. 11 NBA titles. Give me a break with the player/coach. He’s purely known as the greatest of all-time for his brand of shoes and commercials that became an international sensation. When the game was on the line, Jordan was great, just like every other Top 50 player. You’ve been watching too many videos and listening to too much hysteria raising Jordan to new levels. Having an all-star team that was one of the best in NBA history with a coach that is one of the best in NBA history and ball-hogging and averaging a lot of points isn’t being the greatest of all-time. Go back and read the article again and find some of the players mentioned in the article and try to be objective and actually look at everything that makes up a player. Don’t get caught up in the hype of Jordan. He’s – in my opinion – Top 10 all-time but definitely not the GOAT.
MJ did meet Shaq in the conference Finals during the 95-96 season and the Magic were SWEPT by the Bulls. Shaq was not isolated on his own team he was paired with Penny Hardaway who was one of the best guards in the league at that particular time. The Magic even had Dennis Scott who was one of the best 3 point shooters at that time. They also had Nick Anderson who was a good ball defender to go along with Horace Grant who won 3 titles with Jordan. Pat Ewing was paired with a great defensive team and Hall of fame coach in Pat Riley. The Knicks even made the NBA Finals the year Jordan retired. Jordan and the Bulls of the 95-96 Season established the best regular season record of all time 72-10 and only had 4 losses in the post season eventually winning their 4th championship a year after Jordan came back from retirement. During the 95-96 season Jordan average 4.3 assist per game and even during the 1988-1989 yr he average 8 assist per game so that kills your non ball sharing lame point considering Lebron James who is often miscompared to Jordan averages just a little over 6 assist per game so there is NOT too much difference there. Jordan basically played point guard during the 1988-1989 season. He also passed the ball to sharp shooters such as John Paxon and Steve Kerr who hit game winning shots in the NBA FINALS. Furthermore keep in mind Jordan was a SHOOTING guard most of his career however he did have the skills to play at least 4 positions maybe even all five due to the fact he could back up defenders in the lane and shoot the turn around jump shot or spin around them and dunk on them. Even with the Wizards at age 40 he played small forward. Now during the 97-98 Season Jordan carried the Bulls on his back during most of the regular season to a 62-20 record because Scottie Pippen was injured. Jordan made Scottie Pippen a great player, Scottie was not a well known player coming into the NBA. Lebron James has YET to take a no name NBA player and make him a great all around player like Scottie Pippen. Even Kobe took Lamar Odom & Ron Artest and made them relevant on a championship team. Also the Bulls did play the Pacers in the Eastern Conference Finals in the 1997-1998 season which means Jordan did play Miller in the East Finals. Jordan won his 1st Championship against Magic & Worthy. Kareem retired in 1989 that was while MJ was still in a young NBA career. However like I stated earlier he did win against a more dominating center in Shaq Oneal. Lastly Jordan played in an era where defense was tougher & fouls were not called as often. Also there were NO zone defense it was straight up man to man although Jordan did face double and triple teams. Even the Pistons aka Bad Boyz had a book of rules to guard Jordan they were called the “Jordan Rules”. Jordan eventually beat the Pistons to go on to win his 1st title against the Lakers. . The only player who can come close to Jordan is Kobe not Lebron. Even Jordan said it himself that Kobe is the closest to him and his moves on the court mirror Jordans. I’m just laughing at your OLD Magic comment…so I guess Magic Johnson who avg 19pg 12.5 assist pg 7 reb pg during the 1990-1991 season the year he won the west finals and LOST to Jordan in the NBA Finals was too old! Magic did retire the next season but that was due to the HIV he contracted then he came back to the NBA a few yrs later. Barkley was not alone he had Kevin Johnson, Tom Chambers and Dan Marjle that was also the yr Barkley was MVP. The Suns even had a better regular season record than the Bulls that season. Jordan was in his 30’s when he was winning multiple titles, MVP’s and other accolades so your Jordan won against OLD players point is just as lame as all your others considering majority of the players he beat were younger than him or near the same age . A lot of the players he beat were eventually on the Olympic Dream Team even Bird & Magic passed the torch over to Jordan during the Olympic Dream Team season. I can tell you are very young and was not around to really see the game of basketball at that particular era.
I will address all of your points one-by-one to have a civil discussion as opposed to bashing someone’s argument based solely on assumptions.
Firstly, the issue of MJ destroying Shaq’s 1995-96 Magic team. Although the Magic did boast players such as Dennis Scott, Penny Hardaway, Nick Anderson and of course Shaq, you will see that the Bulls had more than enough talent to combat it. With Pippen to overwhelm Anderson or Scott or even Hardaway, Rodman as a hustler could take anyone as long as they were reasonably his size, and the often-forgotten 6’11” Tony Kukoc to combat Shaq, MJ should’ve had no trouble winning the series, and a sweep was only the icing on the cake. Any other Top 50 player probably would’ve swept that series also, it isn’t something MJ could exclusively do, which is the argument when declaring a player the GOAT no questions asked.
Secondly, just how strong the Knicks team of 1993-94 was when they made their Finals appearance. That year the Bulls were one Game 7 away from heading to the Conference Finals again without MJ, falling short to the eventual runners-up by 10-points. Patrick Ewing and John Starks and Charles Oakley – “THE GLORIOUS BIG 3 THAT ONLY THE GOAT COULD BEAT” – nearly fell to only Reggie Miller and kind of Rik Smits. Is Reggie really at the same level as Jordan (except without Pippen and Rodman and Kerr)? Seems like something only the GOAT could do. Except that Reggie almost did it himself. He must have had some of his sister’s magic 😛 (your whole generation is online for me to look at)
Thirdly, you bring up a good stat about Jordan’s 1995-96 assist average. Around 8.0 assists that year. However, his career assist average (with the Bulls to be fair) in games he started (your welcome again) is about 5.45. LeBron’s average to date is 6.92. In fact he has already passed Jordan in career assists by 668 assists in 3 less years and in 161 less games played. Looks as though my lame non-ball sharing point has been resurrected.
Fourthly, Jordan never made it past the first round of the playoffs without Scottie. The year Jordan retired, Scottie’s Bulls only dropped two games more than with Jordan and were a controversial call away from heading back to the Conference Finals. Without LeBron, would you be able to name me James Jones or Mike Miller. Drew Gooden or Larry Hughes would never have made NBA Finals appearances. Mario Chalmers wouldn’t have become an upcoming star. After LeBron left Cleveland, a 60-win team went to a lottery pick team, and after he left Miami, four straight Finals trips turned into not making the playoffs although still having 2 of the big 3.
Fifthly, Reggie Miller DID play Jordan in the playoffs, just as I said.
Sixth, Jordan couldn’t beat the Bad Boy Pistons without the help of Scottie Pippen, and in fact the “Jordan Rules” were nothing more than aggression that the “GOAT” couldn’t take at that time. He came back and nearly beat them after beefing up, but wasn’t able to get over the hump until Pippen came into his own.
Seventh, when I say a player was “alone”, I refer to if they’re playing with an NBA top 100, or in my example Barkley’s case, top 200. You couldn’t have thought me serious that they were the only man on the court for their team, right? (a la 2007 Cavs)
Eighth, I don’t mean Jordan defeated only old players, he obviously played against younger competition (Shaq, Iverson), but I refer to fans that believe he defeated Bird and Magic in their prime, however they were both clearly past their peak (even Magic’s numbers were declining at age 32). And I’d argue that if Magic had not left the league due to HIV, Jordan would have less than 6 titles.
Ninth, he defeated an expansion league, but that was already mentioned in this article, you can read up on your own.
Tenth, congratulations you can see my profile picture well enough to tell I’m young. I’ve studied the entire game extensively, that era as well as all eras, since that generation (yours) is completely searchable on the internet whenever I want it :P. I’m also able to be objective to the era and to Jordan. Hysteria surrounding Jordan is influenced by 1990s rise of hip hop, commercials, shoes, and international attention.
Lastly, I’m not saying Jordan isn’t the best of all-time, I’m simply saying players like Kareem, Bird, Magic, Wilt, Duncan, West and LeBron have legacies that are certainly comparable to Jordan’s, and I’m quite frankly tired of fans saying he’s the GOAT without any discussion just because they “witnessed him” and that “he always wanted to win” and that “no one could stop him” even though the same is true of all of the players listed above.
Thank you.
Yeah, penny is considered a top player of all time. So much better than Scotty pippin
AMEN !!!
you need to look your facts up, shaq was in LA by 96 the bulls and magic played in the 94 95 playoffs with the magic winning the series
To Robert Trevino: MJ is the G.O.A.T. Period!! But I agree with you about having a civil discussion and I understand why many young people like you feel like LeBron is the best. It’s because that’s who you see. There is no doubt that he is the greatest of this generation but you can’t watch MJ on YouTube and understand what he meant to his team and to the sport. As someone who is old enough to have seen many of the greats play going all the way back to the 70’s, I can tell you that actually getting to watch Jordan play was truly something special. That’s why almost every sports writer or announcer who witnessed Jordan play agrees that he was the greatest ever. I’m not trying to write a 10,000 word essay praising Jordan here. I don’t need to do that. Just ask the people who were around to witness the other greats in their prime. Almost all of them agree Jordan was the best ever. I’m talking about the sports writers, historians, officials, and many of the great players themselves. These are people who live and breathe the game and they say he’s the best ever. There is no other player in any sport (except maybe Pele’ in soccer, but we’re Americans and most of us don’t give a shit about soccer) that is so universally considered the greatest of all time, than Jordan. By both fans, writers and his peers alike. Like I said in the beginning, I understand why a young person like you believes it’s LeBron. I’m not here to bash that belief, but if you asked 100, or hell even 1,000 people involved in basketball. That being fans, writers and players alike, that were born let’s say in 1970 or before. If you asked them to name the greatest of all time, 90%, at the very least, would say Jordan in a heartbeat. And I’d be willing to bet that not 5 in a 1,000 would put LeBron above Jordan. That right there tells you all you need to know. At least it tells me all I’ll EVER need to know. Jordan is the G.O.A.T.
What are you? Like 8?
Did you ever see Jordan play live?
Best ever.
What are you, like under 30? Did you see the scoring champ play, Kareem Abdul Jabbar?
You must be about 12 years. Jordan was absolutely the GOAT. In fact he was the best athlete any sport has seen to date. Not only was he extremely skilled and athletic, but he was the smartest player I have ever seen and that includes Larry Legend Bird who was also great. Young people…
Hey mikedotsun, it’s obvious you believe only in America sports are been played. Have you ever heard about Pele & Diego Maradona of Soccer or Don Bradmen & Sachin Tendulkar of Cricket. Well Jordan was not skill enough to play those games at the highest level. So please shut your month?
Coming from an avid LeBron fan, I do think that MJ is the best of all-time so far. But, you cannot call him the best athlete ever. LeBron isn’t even the best athlete, but at 6’8″, 250 lbs, and runs the court much faster than MJ and jumps only 2 inches less than MJ, he’s a much better athlete than MJ. But, the best athlete is by far Bo Jackson. 6’3″, 235 lbs running back that did GOOD in 2 professional sports and ran the fastest 40 time ever recorded (4.12 s) is by far the best.
No. Westbrook is
The best athlete ever is considered by many including myself, to be Bo Jackson.
A 4.12 40 yard dash time, at 6’1″ and 230 lbs…..the only athlete ever to be named an all star in two sports….
Jordan is not considered the smartest by no means great basketball players have said that rasheed wallace is the smartest basketball player of all time
Haha. Best athlete any sport has seen? You must not know who Bo Jackson is. Football and Baseball superstar. MJ’s baseball career, not so great.
You can’t say that you know everything about an entire era of basketball that you were not alive to see just because you looked it up online. It is nowhere close to the same. You were not able to WATCH them play. I am not saying that you are excluded from the argument but don’t act like you can truly experience MJ’s game when you never saw him play. And how are you going to knock Jordan for playing with Pippen? The greats in all sports played with other great players. Joe Montana had Jerry Rice, Babe Ruth had Lou Gherig, Magic had Kareem, and Bird had McHale and Parrish. The true mark of a great player in all sports is the ability to lift those around you to a higher level. Just because those that you lifted up were able to sustain success when you leave doesn’t make you less of a player. Jordan is the best player of all-time. He was an other worldly athlete with a competitive drive unmatched by any athlete. He transcends numbers, because no one else was like him. You may say he’s a ball hog but what else are you going to do when you are the only player worth anything on your team for the first 3-4 years of your career. Jordan is not only the best NBA player of all-time but quite possibly the most iconic athlete of all-time.
Magic had more help than Jordan. Kareem is a top 3 player, and some say the GOAT. Worthy had the fastest first step in the NBA. Magic was the greatest point guard of all times (Sorry Oscar). and the Lakers would sometimes have two or three all stars in one year. Contrast that with the lowly Bulls that Jordan struggled to keep in the playoffs. Wilt had 4 MVPs But only 2 titles in 14 years, despite playing with a number of Hall of Famers. Jordan went 6 for 6 with 6 finals mvps. You can’t shake that argument easily. No one else during his era went 6 for 6. Despite LeBron getting to pick and choose what teams he wants to play on to go chase his titles, from Miami to Cleveland, he still falls far short in the same time frame. LeBron has 7 trips to the Finals but melted down so completely against Dallas that it will always be held against him in this argument. The greatest of all time may lose, but he never melts.
Your arguments are lame. For one thing Michael Jordan was the ONLY All-star on his team in 1991 and again in 1998 when he won two of his titles. Name another superstar in the history of the game who’s accomplished that. Not only that, but he’s the ONLY one who’s won three or more championships and turned his team into a dynasty without a domineering center. Furthermore, he gets a 3-peat, retires for two years where the Bulls accomplish nothing and then comes back and gets another 3-peat with an entirely different roster other than Scottie Pippen. He accomplishes this with a record breaking 72-10 record his first year back. Yet, all guys like you point out is the 55-27 record they had without him. So what? They went 47-35 the following year but then jumped up to 72-10 with him back on the team. Recognize that and appreciate it. He gets criticised for his performance in the 1996 finals even though he still averaged 27, 5 &5 and won his 4th finals MVP but look what the rest of his GREAT teammates did that series…
Scottie Pippen who was the 2nd best player on the team, averaged 15.7 PPG off a miserable 34% shooting. Toni Kukoc who was 3rd in line averaged 13.0 PPG off 42% shooting. Steve Kerr who was supposed to be this great shooter, shot 30% from the field and a pathetic 18% from 3-point range. This put all of the weight on MJ who had to be the primary scorer AND the primary defender considering that he had to guard GP for much of the series while Ron Harper was out with injuries. What about game 5 of the 1997 finals which was the most important game of the series when MJ was so sick with the flu that he had to be carried off the bus and into the locker room? Where was his great teammates then? How come Scottie Pippen didn’t step up to the plate and it was Michael Jordan who ended up with 38 points, 5 assists, 7 rebounds 3 steals and 1 block? Do you know what the rest of his great teammates did? Pippen = 17 points, Harper = 5 points, Rodman = 2 points, Kukoc = 9 points and Kerr = 0 points. That’s just fucking pathetic! How about game 6 of the 1998 finals where MJ scored 45 points and made the last 3 clutch plays to win it all while Scottie Pippen was suffering from back spasms? What about the fact that even though Pippen was out for 33 games that year, MJ still led his team to 62 wins? I can go on and on with this. Overrated? I don’t think so. Great teammates? I don’t think so.
Then in the 1998 season, Michael Jordan led the Bulls to a 62-20 record even though Scottie Pippen was out for 33 games that year and he also led them to their 6th championship with a 45 point performance that included the last three clutch plays while Pippen was suffering from back spasms. Michael Jordan couldn’t win without Scottie Pippen? You might want to take a closer look at that.
Air Jordan won the most championships with the least amount of talent on his team and that’s a FACT. Bill Russell won 11 but he also had eight other HOFers on those Celtic’s teams throughout their reign, Magic had four HOFers to play with that included Kareem, Worthy, McAdoo and Wilkes. Bird also played with four. Parish, McHale, Walton and D.J. Kobe got to play with Shaq, Gasol, Payton, Malone and Bynum which is four for sure but potentially five. LeBron got to play with Wade, Bosh, Love and Irving which is two for sure and probably four when it’s all said and done and you’re penalizing Jordan for having Pippen? That’s a joke my friend. He only had ONE HOF teammate for his first 3-peat and two for his second if you want to count a 35-37 year old Dennis Rodman who care more about Vegas and partying at the time. I’ll say this again, Michael Jordan won the most with the least. It’s as simple as that unless you can name a superstar that led his team to multiple championships with no HOF teammates.
What this does is nullify your argument about the 18 top 50 players that other guy brought up. You tried to say that they were isolated but Shaq and Penny were together, Stockton and Malone were together, Magic and Worthy were together, Miller and Jackson were together and those teams had very good role players to boot. The only thing that made those teams inferior to the Bulls is they didn’t have the greatest player to ever grace the hardwood floor on their team! I had to crack up when you tried to say that Chicago had a skinny 6 ft 11″ guy who couldn’t play defense to save his life to contain Shaq who was arguable the most dominant center in the game at the time. Are you kidding me? I found it equally amusing when you tried to compare LeBron’s assists (who’s a POINT FORWARD) and runs just about every play to Jordan’s (who was a shooting guard) and had Pippen bringing the ball down the court. I can continue dissecting your lame arguments all night long but what’s the point? You obviously don’t know your basketball.
Pippen brought the ball up the court. Watch it again. Jordan was the P/SG for the Bulls and brought the ball up the court almost every play. And yes I watched Jordan play growing up. He is not the GOAT. That goes to Wilt Chamberlain who would dominate even today. People say that if Wilt played against Shaq he would be destroyed, but I beg to differ. Shaq had more weight to him, but Wilt was stronger (during his prime he was benching 600 lbs.). Wilt changed his game in later years to be a more assist driven center instead of focusing more on scoring inside. If he continued to focus on points, rebounds, and blocks only and not on assists he would have both the scoring record of Kareem and the scoring avg. of Jordan.
Did you just seriously say that Bynum could potentially be a hall of famer….lmfao. And than Kobe played with Malone and Payton. They were all but washed up when they came to the lakers. But that was a good laugh
Michel was not a ball hog he could just do any thing and the reason why he did not go to the playoffs with the bullets because their was no good people on the team
You aren’t even old enough to have watched that.
You’re going way too far. The championships dont mean too much to me, but He averaged 32.5 8 rebounds and 8 assists on 52% shooting one year, and like two steals and a block. People have come close to matching his athleticism at the 2guard position, but no one has quite matched his combo of one foot and two foot leaping, first step and incredible speed and lateral quickness. Jordan was so quick, that even when he was with the wizards, he was blowing past defenders who played about 5 feet off of him at WILL. And The players are not much more athletic now than they were in 2001-2003.
Jordan was quicker than Kobe and Tmac. He was as quick as rose, except he was 6’6″ and jumped even higher, and was the greatest midrange shooter ever. James Harden dominated the league this year, and jordan didn’t need to get a bunch of fouls to score. He was also a more consistent shooter and had a post game, and again, was much, much more athletic.
Ill say that the players in the 80s and early 90s werent as athletic as they are now. Sure. But the centers were much, much higher quality. Today, there are rules against handchecking that make guards like CP3, CUrry, Westbrook and Irving impossible to stay in front of … a 27 year-old MJ would scorch today’s defenses. Hell, even a second 3peat jordan would do the same thing.
Jordan and LeBron are the two best players ever. Bird, Magic, better than Jordan? are you serious?
Word. Jordan was the man.
You know league averages are down with the implimentation of the Zone. I laugh how people say The Centres were so good back then compared to now and yet since there was no Zone barely ever find one camped out waiting for you…. People say Jordan would score 50 points a game with the rules as is now… He would actually score less than his average. If the Behemoth of Lebron played in Jordan’s era of no zones who would stop him getting to the basket….
Jordan was Wilkins with a lot of lucks and no hair…
The author is listing reasons he might not be the G.O.A.T., he’s not definitely saying that he isn’t, but if anyone would try to debate this, these are the reason. And he does have some valid points, especially the #1 reason – if MJ was the best, why did the 93-94 bulls have only 2 regular season wins less without MJ, made it to the Conference Semifinals, where, some can argue were robbed. I think Scottie Pippen and Phil Jackosn, as well as Jerry Krause (without Rodman no way would they win the second three peat) aren’t getting enough credit. I would like to state that I personally consider MJ the G.O.A.T. because I didn’t watch Bird, Magic & Moses Malone (who somehow always gets discredited and usually doesn’t make anyones top 10-15 list), let alone Kareem, Wilt, Rusell etc.), but these could be valid points.
One thing that people also like to do is discredit Hakeem and the Rockets winning 2 titles when Jordan was out, but some analysts state that the Bulls had a hard time dealing with Hakeem during the regular season.
The things I do remember growing up is that somehow I always knew that Jordan can’t lose, the same I thought about Shaq during the early 2000s. The thing these guys have in common is coaching – Phil Jackson. The next (i.e. current) dominant player is Lebron who always keeps his team in the game, even though throughout his career he has always been coached by lower tier coaches.
Robert –
I know this is an ancient thread, but I found it, I am bored, and I really need to respond to your lack of knowledge of the game even though you “have studied the game extensively.”
Firstly, did you honestly claim that the 6′ 11″ Toni Kukoc could combat Shaq? You do realize he was primarily a SF and stood absolutely no chance of “combating” Shaq right? Just because he was 6’11” did not mean he could combat Shaq. To state that any other top 50 player of all time would have swept the Magic is purely speculation. With what supporting cast?
You state that Lebron James made Mario Chalmers an “upcoming star”. Mario Chalmers is not and never was an upcoming star.
You state that when Lebron left Miami they went from the NBA Finals to not making the playoffs even with 2 of the big three. You do know that Bosh only played 44 games that year due to a neck injury and Wade missed his usual 20 games a year?
You state that Jordan couldn’t beat the Pistons in the playoffs without the help of Pippen. He NEVER played the Pistons in the playoffs without Pippen on the roster. Obviously, Jordan needed the help of his teammates to get over the hump against the Bad Boys as they were one of the better teams ever.
You state that Magic Johnson’s skills were diminishing when his Lakers lost to Jordan’s Bulls, BUT then you state that if Magic hadn’t left the league due to HIV that Jordan would have had less than 6 titles. If Magic lost due to declining skills when he was 32 how would his teams have beaten Jordan’s teams when Magic was in decline? It is very contradictory.
Jordan didn’t make it out of the first round of the playoffs without Pippen. Maybe because the rest of the Bulls rosters each year weren’t very good? An old George Gervin one year, Caldwell Jones another year. A rookie Charles Oakley another year. Orlando Woolridge could have been much better if he wasn’t addicted to cocaine and I believe he was using it then. Lebron didn’t even make the playoffs his first three years in the league so how does that compare to Jordan leading his poor roster to the playoffs each year?
Trevino is a lost puppy here
Kid, don’t get mixed up by baseless troll posts like this page. Jordan is not just the greatest individual basketball player ever; in terms of personal success he is the greatest individual athlete ever. This is a lifelong Knicks fan saying this. This is not hyperbole. He hit every last-second, career-defining shot he needed to in order to be widely recognized as such. No one else was ever even close to his game-closing prowess.
Please note that I said greatest INDIVIDUAL player…if you are looking to build a team, I’m not sure he’s my first pick. If you are looking to win any given moment of a game, particularly the last ones, there is no human ever created more fit for the job.
A good teammate he was not. He was near-psychotic in his focus on winning, which evidently helped make him the GOAT, but also unfortunately influenced future, lesser psychos such as Kobe Bryant and Allen Iverson.
But on the court, make no mistake, there was no hype. Everything you’ve heard is the truth—he was as close to scoring and defensive perfection as you’ll ever find. As for passing, you’re going to have to look somewhere else (although he was very good)…FWIW passing is the only area a guy like LeBron trumps Jordan.
Ahh, Your true feelings! In your article you say you have reasons why Jordan MIGHT not be the greatest, and that he is possibly the goat. Now u say he definitely isnt thw goat, just top 10.
I love your research and dedication. If it wasn’t for dudes like you, the shoe symbol would be the greatest and Back to the Future would be considered a top 10 movie–both of which aren’t true!
Magic, Kobe, Duncan, Bird, Wilt, Russell, etc., etc., etc.
Wow apparently you have either eye site problems or to young , or just maybe have bad memory. Patrick, Malone, miller, Isaiah, Barkley, Payton, they all had great teams Hakeem got bet by them so did Duncan wow
MJ shot 50% in clutch situations, could you name another who did this?
It’s all about the rings baby !!!!( coach Parcels)
11 rings !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 2014 career rebounds blocked shots MJ. Has only 6 check out his poor defensive stats
Great Job……….
@phill koch-Couldn’t of said it any better. Well said!
Best comment ever!
I agree. I also do not think that he was a ball hog. In the final championship game against the Lakers he was double teamed, leaving I believe Steve Kerr open for eight jump shots. Even when he was double teamed he was unstoppable. The only people who know of his dominance were people who grew up watching him.
Nobody could stop him back then, but if you put him against someone like Anthony davis or dwight howard, he’s gonna get blocked. Whos better at shooting, michael jordan or Larry bird? obvious answer. Kobe Bryant had more game winners but who’s “The clutchest”? Michael Jordan. And why?
Because Jordan shot 50% in clutch situations, when kobe shot like somewhere in the 20s i believe!
Also jordan shot over a prime dikembe mutombo so why not anthony davis or howard
lebron,oscar,eljin,kareem,wilt all better all time than mj..jordan is just a product of insane marketing and bs hype from clowns like you.. and of all the players you mentioned… what does that have to do with there being 10 to 12 teams that were complete garbage non contenders that mj could go and have a field day on back then in the weak expansion league era..mj also didnt have to deal with getting zoned in on to get the ball out of his hands like they do to lebron and other players these days with there being no zone defense back then.. it would be a whole different story if mj played against the defensive strategies of todays game..they used to gaurd mj with small weak point gaurds like gary payton back then were he basically always had an advantage..players like lebron, leonard, paul george,butler,tony allen, etc..didnt even exist back then exept for rodman and pippen but they were both on his team lol .its pretty easy to tell mj while he was an all time great player is absolutely not the greatest
Well said, no one had ever played quite like Jordan before & perhaps ever will!
There were no teams in the 90’s with the amounts of talent as in the 80’s. You move that Bulls team back ten years they don’t win a single title. You move them up ten years they may get a couple. They were a good consistent team in an era when that was enough.
the author of this rediculous article is obviously an 16 year old who knows nothing about nba history. lol
Dude I like you
the teams were diluted, but no fault of Jordan’s. The Lakers were a shell of themselves, Portland had too many people shooting, Seattle didn’t utilize all their weapons relying too much of Payton, Utah was predictable because of Malone. What elevated the Bulls was the dissolution of the Pistons by free agency. Each year Detroit beat the Bulls They lost someone valuable in free agency. When they lost Rick Mahorn, John Edwards and Adrian Dantley through a trade that’s 30 pts and 18 fouls they lost. AS well as defensive presence. The team the Bulls defeated was designed to beat the Lakers which Detroit did. Had they not lost James Edwards the Bulls still didn’t have an answer for him.
Love that thank you
First of all your whole statement is false Jordan lover. Magic didn’t have Kareem when the Lakers lost ttothe Bulls. Btw if I needed a CLUTCH shooter it would be Larry Bird. If I needed a player to hog the ball I would call on Jordan
When it comes down to opinion of course those will be dissension; however, that is why things such as PER and WS and WS/48 were developed. Anyone who has worked at a high level (I’m a former military officer) knows that when comparing things which are similar you have to establish metrics. It can’t be arbitrary. Are the above metrics perfect, no they are not but I feel that they work because I have looked at them and how they rate players and even during the times Jordan was not playing I believe they accurately conveyed who were the most dominant of NBA players. During the 60s and early 70s it was Wilt, then in the mid and late 70s it was Kareem. If we separate out the ABA then you have Dr J in the 70s. Then you have the dominance of Bird mid 80s. Next you have Jordan dominating the late 80s to mid 90s. And finally you have LeBron dominating. Pretty close to accurate in my book.
Guess who has the highest PER of all time in the regular season MJ. Guess you have the highest PER of all time in the playoffs MJ. Guess you has the highest PER of all time in the Finals MJ.
Now does MJ have the absolute highest PER for an individual season. No that belong to Wilt or Kareem, but both they players fell off during there careers especially Wilt. Wilt avg 50+ points in a season but only had 4 50+ point playoff games. MJ has double the amount. MJ also has more than double the amount of 45+ point playoff games than Wilt who is once again in second place in that category.
My rationale as to why MJ is the greatest is consistency. He was consistently great and dominant each season he played which is why his PER is so high. I particularly rate playoff performance as more important. LBJ is also very high on the PER list. Number two all time in the regular season and number three all time in the playoffs, however, LBJ has had some epic breakdown in the playoffs especially the Finals. It’s why he should be classified when his career is over as number two and could never be number one.
You can’t undo epic chokes. Just like you can’t undo Wilt’s epic failures in the playoffs or Kareem allowing Magic to up stage him and take over his team ie both Wilt and Kareem were not leaders.
There of course other reason for MJ being number one: 24-0 when his team has home court advantage, 33.3 avg in the playoffs, 33.5 avg in the finals. The only 40+ point avg in the Finals. Never scoring less than 20 in the finals. Only failing to score 20 or more in six playoff games with the absolute lowest being 15 points even though he was the primary scorer on a team that outside of Pippen lack a consistent scoring threat. SHOULD have been easy to beat the Bulls just stop Jordan from scoring. LeBron ‘s been stopped before and so has Kobe in playoff series. Remember the JORDAN stoppers, the Jordan rules. You could beat the team in the beginning but you could NEVER stop Jordan from scoring. The record book show that every other has been stopped in a series before. And when I mean stopped I mean held significantly below there playoff numbers like how Peyton Manning is usually held well below his regular season numbers in the playoffs and ergo NOT considered the greatest QB of all time just probably the greatest regular season QB of all time. You see numbers do matter in a scientific world.
Sorry had some typos but doing this on an iPad.
I would also like to add another thing Jordan was dominate on the defensive side of the ball and is considered the best defending SG in NBA history. Combine that with his offensive prowess and you should get arguably the best players overall in NBA history.
Thank you.
Heck almost any star could score as much a jordan taking 30+ shots per game, ALMOST any star.
Jordan is not the G.O.A.T!
How are we measuring this?
Most titles? He loses, 11 Wilt
Most points in NBA history? He loses, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 38387
Most points in a game? He loses 100 Wilt* Kobe 81
Not in assists, rebounds, blocks, steals, etc… So what are we using to gauge this? (Someone answer this)
Subjective rant… shorter 3 pt line, weaker league, aging stars (magic, bird, Drexler etc) So who was he playing against exactly. Who else in the league was putting up numbers like Jordan?
Today’s nba LBJ, Kobe, Durant, George, Irving, Davis, Melo, Darozan, Harden, Curry, Al Jefferson, CP3, Westbrooke, Lamarcus Aldridge, Cousins, Tony Parker, Lowry, John Wall, Blake Griffin, Jimmy Butler and MANY MANY more can put up Gawdy numbers on any given day.
Who would you say can boast the same back in the day?
Hand Checking? Hand checking still goes uncalled at times now but players are smarter and better coached… waving off, rip through, or just blow by players.
If the title of GOAT doesn’t go to Bill Russell something is wrong with us.
Also, the 90s consisted of about half of the top 100 players of all time, most of those players wont even come close to reaching that top 100
Bill Russel was a great winner and performer, but he falls short because he had a lot of help and his field goal and free throw percentages were anemic for a star of his caliber. Jordan played against far more top 30 players than any of these guys nowadays. He was a cold-blooded assassin.
I didn’t even read your whole comment before I came to your first problem. How many playoff games did MJ play compared to Wilt? There has never been a player near as dominant in evey aspect of the game as Wilt. MJ is just a product of the hype and push for a new star the NBA was going thru at the time.
So funny “mj only shot 46% in 96 finals also career low” lebron is shooting 40% and everyone sayin best finals lol. 46% is also kobe highest shooting % in 7 finals. Jordan is greatest player including most effiecent ball hog ever. One more point jordan weak era understandable but this is strong era where lebron and deladova can sweep confrence finals or kobe era beating dwight howard and hedo turgolu lmao. Malone stockton hornasac weak compared to steph klay and andre not really cream rises to top in any era 1st 3peat jordan and prime and deep squad but 2nd 3peat last couple yrs u got back injury prone pippen a defensive specialist rodman and who kerr jud bushler luc longley old coming back knee injury ron harper toni kukoach is good bench player bill wennington randy brown and jordan was 33 to 35 yrs old lebron in his prime with heat wade bosh ray allen shane battier mike miller chalmers birdman haslem probably few other decent players left off goes 2 an 2 not bad but he choked so bad against mavs something mj has never done u know play over 10 points under his average and play hot potatoe in a finals and kobe cost 04 finals shot 34% while jacking most shots while shaq shot 62% but couldnt get enough touches neither is on Jordans level
You failed to mention the Detroit Pistons with Dennis Rodman and the New York Knicks with Patrick Ewing. Those wew two very good defensive teams. Jordan also beat Shaq with Luke Longley at center. Jordan started winning with pippen and grant. Your kidding right? They had David Robinson and Patrick Ewing and Shaquille Oneal and Hakeem and Karl Malone in the 90s. Utah also had Malone and Stockton. Defense was way more lenient in the 90s with hand checking. Maybe Lebron should play with Bill Lambeer. There were more classic centers in the 90s. Also you failed to mention how Jordan had to play Boston early in his career with Larry Bird. Not to mention Robert Parish and the Cleveland teams.
None of these new teams had to play Shaq in his prime.
I would put Magic Johnson as the third best player and Larry Bird as the forth
Jordan was in the era of human highlights and he set the bar. Blake Griffin is probably it today and he is no MJ. Jordan use to put English on the ball around the basket. The man perfect his craft and has the rings to prove it. Haters are going to hate and ballers are going to ball. Jordan did it with style and flare. No question the GOAT is MJ. My number 1 pick over all if we had to pick players in their prime to start a team today.
i Agree.
The “only players that contest Jordan are Kobe and LeBron”?
Youre obviously 14 years old. Do a little research before making ridiculous statements, you won’t sound so foolish.
The best 3 players in NBA history are MJ, Bird and Magic. Then there’s Kareem, Wilt, Russell, Robertson, Dr. j, and Duncan. Kobe and LeBron are barely top 25
Kareem would be the next choice for GOAT.
Larry dude.hes one of the few legends that had the whole package.
Neither, Jordan is the greatest of all time.
I’m sorry but it’s really hard to argue that MJ is not the best player ever.
Micheal jorden is against lebron James and he have 3 championship rings so I guess lebron James can make it to 3 more rings – lebron James have 4 win titles!!
How on earth can you compare jordan to kobe lmao. If your numbers dont improve in the playoffs then you are just a talented player. Kobes numbers did not improve at all when it came to the playoffs. He isnt in the top 20 people are silly. Kobe compares to pippen not jordan. Do yourself a favor comapare kobes regular season stats with his playoff stats. Then do the same thing with jordan or bird or wilt. How can people be so dumb to bring up kobe in this conversation.he has to be the only player who can get worse in the playoffs but gets a free pass.
Why do you keep referring to KOBE Bryant?
He’s not in the discussion! MJ LB Bird Magic all have 1 thing in common. They shoot 50% from the field. Kobe was to Shaq what Pippen was to MJ. A role player. Superstars like SHAQ(31 ppg (59% fg)shoot 50% fg. After Shaq Pau and Bynum combined for 30 ppg 57% fg. There’s where your titles come from. MJ by himself 31 ppg 53% fg. LeBron 27 ppg as high as 57% fg. Kobes a career 44% guy who shoots 40% in the Finals.
This guy needs to do his research though on why he didnt get washington to the playoffs.
Whoever wrote this article is getting things wrong.
1) how do ya expect a 38 year old Jordan whose body at that age can’t take the stress and load that he was once able to, and take the Wizards to the playoffs.
2) while there were expansion teams, The writer missed out the point that Jordan played in a hand checking era and still dominated
3) The writer had only one example to show that MJ was a ball hog. At point he was, but he learnt later to share the ball and when he did they ended up beating the Pistons and won their first ring.
4) If the teams he defeated were overrated then that only proves how great he is by only being the underdog.
5) You didn’t provide enough evidence to prove that 90s wasn’t a good era of basketball. The reason why it was because there were many teams that had hall of famers, and also this era was when players took defense to heart. Besides there is always gonna be some team that will have 20 wins or less.
6) The Bulls were good after first retirement because Jordan elevated Pippen. Clearly making your teammates better is a sign of greatness. Go check the PER for Pippen in 1990 and 1991. It increased the season after they lost to the Pistons and in 91 his PER went up and they swept the Pistons.
You’re right if we’re talking best dunks still NOT Lebron
Everything right; there is no Goat in NBA.
Neither
Larry Bird.
Kobe Bryant
Lmao this is pure foolishness
refute it then. cant refute facts.
Constantly using the fact that Scottie Pippen was a good player isn’t an excuse to say that Jordan isn’t the GOAT. It just proves he was a great player, which no one can deny either. It doesn’t matter if the teams he beat in the playoffs “weren’t as good as they had been” or were “over hyped” they still got to the finals which shows they were still good enough to contest a title. The addition of expansion teams means all the established teams got more wins, doesn’t make the fact that they won the championship any less valid, they still had to contest with the teams they’d have to play before. As previously stated Pippen was a fantastic player in his own right, and so Jordan leaving didn’t have as big an effect because they had an almost equally good player who had been through almost all the career challenges Jordan had. When other great players leave and their team does rubbish, that’s those he’d left behinds fault for not knowing how to use their own skills without depending on their star. You can’t penalise Jordan just cause he had strong team mates. Michael Jordan isn’t just considered the best player of all time but also the best shooting guard. SHOOTING GUARD. Who cares if he had a rubbish percentage, it’s literally in the name to take shots. He may not have been a prolific passer but as this article itself stated he made up for it in scoring. Finally, all of the suggestions are equally valid. But if we look into each of them they’ll have their own statistical issues that means they can’t be considered the GOAT. Even if Michael Jordan isn’t the best (and incase you haven’t realised i believe he is) no one else can be because they’ll all have they’re issues too. Jordan is the closest thing to the greatest there’s ever been, and it doesn’t look like it’s going to change any time soon.
So, what’s your excuse for LeBron not being the greatest? IF what you say is true and that great players don’t deny another player that they were great, tell me what’s denying LeBron?
Seriously? As great as LeBron is he CHOKED in the finals, not once, but TWICE! That right there. LeBron when with the Miami Heat went in with a stacked team and still needed a Game 7 to win. MJ’s Finals team’s never went to a Game 7, and he never choked. Case Closed!
How is this foolishness? They’re facts. I think he’s definitely number one but not in the sense that he’s “undoubtedly” number one. There’s no case you can make that he is “undoubtedly” the greatest.
There are logical fallacies in some of his points. Additionally, some of the points are just an opinion of positive correlation without the actual “facts”. I do say “some of his points”.
Wow…. Really??
First of all u are using the excuse that as a “ROOKIE” MJ didn’t get his team out of the first round of the playoffs. Well he was a rookie in the 80’s arguably one of the greatest decades of basketball. 2nd, while I will admit that when he returned to play with the Wizards he was clearly pass his prime, you complain Jordan couldn’t get them to the playoffs but then continue to admit how this is a team sport, so how do you pin that on Jordan alone and not simply a team lacking talent and drive. And as far as the teams you say were overrated that he beat in the “6” finals, well they made it to the finals and had at least one future hall-of-famer on them so they couldn’t have beef too overrated. All that said I’m sure I could name at least 15 reasons Michael Jordan is the greatest player of all time without even mentioning his titles or MVP’s. Things such as his work ethic, the fact that he constantly got better every season with the exception of post Bulls play, his play for love of the game, his dedication to his team including the game where his teammates carried him off the court after bringing his team to a victory while playing with the flu. MJ is the greatest of all time (GOAT) and that’s all there is to it.
Damn. Truth hurts huh. He is not the greatest, Wilt averaged 50 points a game. Magic retired at 32 years old and already had 5 titles. Jordan had 5 titles in what 14+ years? Everything this article says is true. Let’s face it, the fact that Jordan is a marketing genius and mastermind lends to this “hands down greatest of all time” sentiment. But it’s all BS.
so you watched wilt play? And how can you say magic is the greatest when magic himself declares MJ the greatest of all time.
Magic never said mj was the greatest of all time. He said in his HOF speech that him and larry legend were
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wcr3PR3AQw
Magic nor Larry are the greatest. Neither are great defenders. I see a 3 person race. MJ LB Kareem in any order. No Way Magic or Bird can defend MJ or LB. But LeBron can defend any perimeter player in league history.
These is why I would say Jordan is greater than Wilt. Jordan had the ability to handle the ball off the dribble to score, while Wilt needed someone to dribble the ball up the court, and pass him the ball under or close to the rim so he could make a high percentage shot. Jordan had the ability to score anywhere on the court without relying on teammates, where as Wilt couldn’t score anywhere on the court and had to rely on teammates.
Wilt was a Center and like 9 feet (I know 7) TALL in an era where not much else was that tall. He should have had a 100 pct Field Goal accuracy. Jordan was a 6′ 6″ guard dunking on 7 footers and averaging 30. Jordan got beat up by Bad Boy Pistons with HAND CHECKING, and still averaged 30. Magic played on an ALL-STAR team when he won those championships. Not hating on Magic’s greatness, just stating FACT. Jordan was a force in the NBA. He made every game he played memorable.
Thank you for all of this (minus the spelling errors). All your points are valid but i feel i need to let you know he didn’t actually have flew. The night before the game he ordered asked to order a pizza cause he was hungry and everyone in Utah knew which hotel the Bulls were staying at and so someone poisoned the pizza somehow. When it arrived everyone thought something was up and so no one ate any except Michael who had the whole thing. He spent the rest of the night in bed shivering sweating and saying that no matter what he’d still play the game the next day
So i guess that makes it better. Should have been easier since it was poisoning.
Nice conspiracy theory. No one poisoned MJ. He had the flu. Believe me if “everyone thought something was up and so no one ate any except Michael” his team mates would never have let him eat it. What nonsense. Courageous play by Jordan, but not poisoned.
It took him 6 years to start winning. That alone eliminates any arguments saying he won by himself. He couldn’t win anything (MVPs, FMVPs and titles without Pippen). Thats fact.
Kareem did win 5 MVPs before Magic joined him in the Lakers. And also had one championship before playing with Magic.
Russell played in 13 seasons and won 11 rings
Kareem won with WITH FREAKING OSCAR ROBERTSON! THE GREATEST TRIPLE DOUBLE THREAT THE GAME HAS EVER SEEN! ARE YOU KIDDING ME? HOW IS KAREEM WINNING WITH OSCAR COUNT AS BETTER THAN JORDAN WINNING WITHOUT PIPPEN?
Jordan didn’t win anything for seven years. He wasn’t a rookie. They got by the first round only once during that period. It wasn’t only Pippen, it was Grant, Armstrong, Rodman, Kukoc, Kerr, Paxon, how many more do we need to name? He had a bunch of all stars on those teams. And the year he didn’t play, they won 55 games! He had a lot of help to get by that seven year drought.
Only real all star they had was Horace Grant. Everybody else was role players. BJ Armstrong made one all star game but in that case, Mo Williams was an all star player for Cleveland. Now, name 1 player who won without help. I’ll wait. If we are going to use your logic, let’s just discredit every player to ever win a ring. Beating Bird and the Celtics and Isiah and the Pistons aren’t possible without a team. They were the top tier teams in the East, at the time. Prime Bird and prime Isiah? C’mon. You say, the Bulls were just as good without but did they win? Nope. Players don’t play to win 55 games. That’s not the ultimate prize.
I agree with your comment but Lebron carried the crappy Cavs to the finals and then leaves and they finish last. Michael leaves and they just lose in the ECF and still win 55 games… Lebron again left Miami and they improved their bench and still did not make finals… It’s easy to say MJ had a better team than Lebron if Lebron joins a 55 win team their probably winning the championship same as nearly any top 5 all time player joining a 55 win team. MJ never achieved what lebron did which is lifting a bunch of crap players to finals he always had a good support cast and great coach… Saying all that two three peats is still a fantastic achievement and can not be discredited MJ is without doubt a top 5 all time great but is he number 1 well that is debatable certainly Lebron, Kareem and several others have a case… MJ was also not the brightest player and his shot first mentality worked in Phil Jacksons systems that system is no longer working and a team like the current GSW would blow away the old bulls because the system has gotten smarter and player more athletic
You fool, Jordan didn’t make it past the first round his first 3 years. made it to the 2nd round his 4th year and then the conference finals in years 5 and 6, losing to the eventual champion Pistons. He then won 6 straight titles, excluding the half year return in 95.
Most of you are so uneducated, I’ve been reading these comments for 20 minutes and what a waste of time. maybe get on youtube and watch some film.
Read Bill Simmons book of basketball, not saying its an absolute truth but at least thats someone who has researched. He paints a great picture of why Wilt Chamberlain isn’t even in the top 5 GOAT
He did not win 6 straight. Stop the misinformation. He won 3 straight, retired, came back a year and a half later, losing to orlando in the conference finals. He couldn’t even MAKE IT to 4 straight, let alone 6 straight. And quitting doesn’t do much for his legacy. He was getting tired from the long schedule to a break to play baseball and came back refreshed.
Ive been reading these post, and I know it’s been weeks but “he who calls one a fool is a full himself. ” no he did not win 6 straight title in 6 consecutive seasons but he is 100% in finals performances. As for the 94-95 season, it wasn’t even a half of season when he returned. Read this….. “Chicago was puttering along with a 34-31 record when Jordan took the floor for the club on March 19 against the Indiana Pacers. He scored 19 points in that game but looked a little rusty. Jordan hit for 27 points three nights later against the Boston Celtics, scored 21 against the Orlando Magic on March 24, and then popped in 32 against the Atlanta Hawks the following night. On March 29 he showed that his skills were undiminished with a memorable 55-point performance against the Knicks in New York.
With Jordan back for the final 17 games of the regular season, the Bulls went 13-4 to finish at 47-35 overall. He led the team in scoring in 11 of those games, topped the club in assists four times, and led the Bulls in rebounding on six occasions. He finished with averages of 26.9 points, 5.3 assists, 6.9 rebounds, and 1.76 steals in 39.3 minutes per game. Jordan struggled from the field, however, shooting just .411.” So being gone from the game to persue another professional sport, which required totally different conditioning and training, then returning and still making his team better seems to be impressive to me. And as far as his legacy, “quitting” is not the word to use when you leave after conquering a sport for 3 years straight. It’s respectively called “retirement”. Having a statue made in your honor in the city of Chicago, on November 1, in 1994 kinda solidifys a legacy. So I can’t agree with it being damaged at all. No other player has revolutionized the game of basketball the way the Jordan has. His accomplishments are untouched no matter what era you mention. Numbers don’t lie….only critics.
basketball is a team game, especially when that was in the 80s, which is arguably the best decade in basketball, No player can win and has ever won a championship alone bc its NOT POSSIBLE
He Is Not The Greatest of all time Oscar Robertson And Wilt Chamberlaine were better all aroun players and probably a few more.
Ppl say wilt bill Russell……. but hey those guys wouldn’t have that type of career if they had today’s rules. So are you saying that if jordan was in his prime in the 80’s he wouldn’t kill those cats? He was already killing those cats as a rookie he jus had w crappy team!!! And a team wins championships. He is definitely the greatest individual player ever. WITH CHAMPIONSHIPS!!!
Wilt, Bill, and Russell actually played in a more rough and tumble era than the Jordan era. Listen to the veterans of that age (Bob Petit for an example) and they talk about how much more physical the game was back then. Forget hand checking…if a player tried to dunk the ball the defensive player on the next play would make sure if he left the ground again in such an attempt his legs would be cut out from under him. This was the day and age where hand checking was more like putting the other player into the third row of the audience. Much more like checking in Hockey than hand checking later in Basketball.
It’s all true. Too bad the legend of Jordan has basically become religion at this point. Still, I do remember that people were saying Favre was the best QB of all time back when ESPN was in their ear constantly about that, so maybe there’s hope…
As a die-hard Pistons fan who grew up during the Bad Boys era, I can tell you, I had NO love for Michael Jordan whatsoever. I was (and still am) an Isiah Thomas fanatic and I did (and still do) believe that Isiah has not received his full due as one of the greatest players of all time and also of THAT ERA!
So, much like Mr. Summer here, I never wanted to admit how great Jordan was.
However, with age comes wisdom. And the numbers just don’t lie…
Michael is arguably, the greatest player of all time. He dominated the league in what many consider to be its “Golden Age”.
I COMPLETELY AGREE that his 6 championships are over-hyped. He WON during a period of expansion and in a very watered down league talent-wise.
But Jordan DOMINATED the league’s “Golden Age” from DAY ONE.
His 1986 1st round series vs the Celtics (in just his 2nd year in the league) is all the evidence anyone needs.
That Celtics team is considered one of the 5 greatest teams of ALL time. First, they went 40-1 at the Garden for the season. And they STEAMROLLED their way to the NBA Championship. They only lost ONE game in the Conference Playoffs!
And yet, the Celtics had absolutely NO ANSWER WHATSOEVER FOR MIKE!
Any basketball fan old enough knows Jordan dropped 63 in game 2. But a lot of people don’t know he went in for 49 in game one.
And he wasn’t as much a “ball hog” as people think. In game three he had 9 assists and in the now-legendary Game Two, he led the Bulls and was 2nd among all players in assists with 6.
Not only that, but he led all players and tied two others for steals (3) and had 2 blocks.
Remember, Michael was a SHOOTING GUARD. His job was to SCORE first, PASS second.
Here’s MJs stats in his13 seasons with the Bulls:
32.5 points per game
52% field goal percentage
5.3 ASSISTS (that’s pretty damn good for a SG)
AND
To pop the “ball hog” argument…
Mike only averaged 23 shots per game. That’s FAR from a ball hog.
Jackson, I understand. Please believe me. I feel your pain, brother! I hate to admit it myself…but…
Michael Jeffrey Jordan is the GOAT.
You even know his middle name?? And cite it?
Jordan didn’t win anything until he had the host of all stars to do it. Seven years. Only one playoff series win. And how did that non-Jordan team win 55 games?
Host of All Stars? Jordan, Pippen, Horace Grant, BJ Armstrong came to Bulls from day 1 of his playing career. They were formed and not tailored unlike this league we call NBA NOW.
Certainly you dont consider Joe Smith, Anthony Bennet, Glen Rob, etc as All-Stars dont you?
Kukoc was a 2nd rounder drafted by Bulls, Kerr was 2nd rounder acquired by Bulls.
On the next 3peat, they Horace and BJ were out of the Bulls, then came Ron Harper as a reliever, averaging 7-8 ppg on his 4 season with bulls that era.
Rodman was the only player they know that will make a great contribution. ONE PLAYER but with attitude that SPURS failed to handle, even Lakers, Mavs were not able to contain THE WORM.
BULLS HOFERS that era are Jordan, Pippen and Rodman. Next would be Kerr but by his contributions off the court and for what he is doing now for GSW.
MJ is no G.O.D. but he is G.O.A.T.
Host of All-stars? Wrong argument…… We are talking about MJ, not LeBron.
This man is absolutely right in everything he just mentioned. I would just like to add that 5.3 assists is very good for any shooting guard. There are not many shooting guards who don’t average more than 5 assists and a lot of these dudes don’t even score 20 points a game. There a good amount of starting point guards who don’t even put up the number of assists Jordan did. Now I do agree that media does oversell his greatness, like when they recently discussed if 50 year old Jordan can beat present day Lebron in a 1 v 1 and many people thought he could. That’s a little over the top but Jordan is still the greatest.
WOW!!!!! RJ, you just exposed your complete and utter naivety about everything basketball.. The Boston Celtics had no answer for Michael Jordan you say? What would make you think such a thing? The 63 points in game two? The Celtics had the absolute perfect answer for Mike and that was simply to let him be. Let him play an entire game of 1 on 5 basketball and see how well his Bulls compete against the best 5 player team in the NBA. You seem to have a vivid memory of those 63 points he dumped on the Celts but do you remember much else about the game? Like the fact that in games 1 & 2 combined , he managed to grab only one single measly offensive rebound. He scored 63 points not because he was too much for Boston to handle, he scored those points because the Celtics are a team and they understand that there is not a single human being on earth who can play all five positions at once. You do know that the Bulls got swept 3 games to nil don’t you? And by an avg of @ 15 points or so. And don’t think for a second that it’s a mere coincidence that the Bulls domination of the NBA’ s Eastern Conference began at the very same time that Larry Bird went down with back and ankle injuries; injuries that forced him into retirement within 18 months. Michael Jordan is the greatest ball player to ever step onto a court, I believe this wholeheartedly……..but Larry Bird is a close second/third, however it is way too often that he is overlooked., unjustly as far as I am concerned.
I watched that 1986 game 2, did you honestly believe that every shot Mj took was uncontested? They just let Mj scored on them? because that’s what you were trying to say. And I highly doubt that.
Correct. MJ is overrated and certainly overhyped. It’s amazing how grown men continue to ride his jock.
Completely agreed
You mean his Hanes don’t you?
I agree with the article. I’ve watched and followed the NBA since 1969 and Jordan benefited from the times he played in, NBA hype to have something to follow Magic and Bird who made the NBA as popular as it became, a lot of favorable calls that exceeded what was commonly acknowledged as “Super Star” treatment. He is without a doubt one of the greatest ever and I’m not sure you can justifiably call anyone the greatest ever but if you can, IMHO it was either Chamberlain as the most dominant force ever or Magic as the greatest all – around ever.
in the period that Micheal jordan was playing basketball we found the best nba player of all times and Micheal took 6 nba championship and not this is only the point when Micheal left chicago bulls to play baseball they didn’t reach the title and when he come back they won 3 consecutive titles so he is the best player of the nba history
The era of dudes making the 50 greatest players ever who only made it because they were in the league at the time? The same list that left off Joe Dumars? The guy that shut down shoe-boy until he had to switch up and guard Pippen once in awhile?
expansion had nothing to do with the Bulls winning. The magic went to a finals, the heat were playoff contenders, as was the hornets. When bill Russell and the celtics were winning all those titles there was only 12 teams in the league and very few new players were added. Sure he took a lot of shots but let’s be honest who else was gonna take them? A lot of those shots I bet were contested or as the shot clock ran down. All theses other teams you bring up as winning all had more than 1 star on the team so you just proved a point that it takes more than 1 guy to get a team to the playoffs. Enough of the hating, he was and still is the G.O.A.T. Until someone else proves otherwise. Todays NBA is all about scoring and very little defense so let’s talk about being watered down!
Yeah, you’re right. That once in a life time post presence had nothing to do with it at all.
Remember those dominant Grizzlies teams as well?
I’m not really one for 1 guy being the GOAT. Too many Eras with expansion and rule changes, etc. I’m not willing to rule Jordan out of the conversation, nor am I willing to make the conversation exclusively about Jordan. To be fair, the author isn’t saying anything that is outrageous from a fact standpoint. There are no lies being espoused here. Just fact and opinion based on those facts. And yet he is greeted with closed-mindedness. Some people know what they know and don’t care to know anymore.
MAN I’VE BEEN SAYING THIS FOR YEARS. EVERY ONE OF THESE POINTS I’VE TOLD PEOPLE. EXCEPT THE BALL HOGGING POINT GREAT STORY.
Sells shoes as well, remember? And that amazing (and boring) dunk,remember that?
Jordan had a much harder pool of teams than any era. The Knicks, Magic, Rockets, Supersonics, Pistons were fantastic teams… we dont need espn to know hes the goat
No way the 80’s had more talent and some of the good players in the 90’s were in their prime in the 80’s
Sounds like ESPN propaganda to me what you’re spouting. And he quit before Hakeem peaked didn’t he? The year his former team won 55 games and made it to the finals.
If you’ve ever stepped foot on a basketball court, you know you don’t win anything with stats. Michael is considered the G.O.A.T because of his intensity and passion ALONG with his uncanny scoring ability and ridiculous athleticism. Even Jordan’s peers (ask Magic or Bird) say he was the greatest.
Also, for an “expansion” team – Orlando beat the Bulls the first year he was back from his first retirement. And Wilt just towered over everyone else in a seriously “watered down” NBA. He had very little competition. His own teammates admittedly “setup” his 100 point scoring game.
i wonder if this guy actually watched the nba back in jordans time or he just learned everything about him from espn. haha.
At least he learned to spell, like some of us who grew up in the 80s, and the constant ads for us to “Be Like Mike”. He was good, but couldn’t win when there were still great players who were still healthy. He won in the 90s against aging greats or soft rising stars like Chuck, Ewing or Divac (?). He quit before the Dream hit his peak, because losing to a real black man would’ve hurt the ego of an Oreo like Mike.
jordan never loss a finals appearance!!! Enough said!! When it counted the most he made it happen everybody else had a loss in the finals, Lebron, Kobe, magic all loss at one time when everything was on the line
random Words and RanDom capitaliZAtion!!11one!!! cHecKmate JOrdaN haTEr!!one111!!!
Michael Jordan has not played since 2003. You are still arguing about if he is the greatest. The fact that this article and discussion even exists is proof that he is the greatest player of all time. Nobody else is even being argued about over a decade after their retirement.
People still argue for Bill Russell and Wilt. So, since they do that…they both are the greatest by your logic.
Learn some rhetoric, ya Plebe!
I can’t believe this… I have read this as a comment in one of the youtube videos of MJ. This comment was part of an argument about Lebron vs MJ. And this… i mean that comment was annihilated by a reply made by an MJ fan… point by point this was answered. This though is a little bit altered… but do you still see the slight hint of Lebronism right there. LOL! I wish i could remember all the details of the reply. ^_^
Oh, well a second account of a YouTube argument were the guy was annihilated by the Jordan fan, case fucking closed, y’all. The man’s name who destroyed the doubter of Air…Albert Einstein.
The other way to look at the quality of his finals opponents is this: If Jordan were injured right before the playoffs those years and could not play in the post-season, the following superstars and hall-of-famers would have won 1 or more championships and be considered far more potent in our NBA memories than they are now:
Patrick Ewing might have a ring.
Stockton and Malone might have 2 rings a piece, and have back-to-back titles. They’d be revered.
Payton and Kemp might have a ring.
Drexler would have his first ring, then have added a second in Houston. He’s be one of the best 2 guards ever.
Magic Johnson would have 6 rings, and might be atop everyone’s best-ever list.
Charles Barkley would have his ring, and be up there as one of the 2 or 3 greatest PF of all time. That Suns team was so potent, it’s possible the confidence of winning would have spilled over to another chip the next year.
But.. they didn’t. Because Jordan made a habit of imposing his will over even the other hall-of-famers and superstars of what’s considered the greatest era in the NBA, and often thoroughly demoralizing those superstars in the process. Clyde was so shaken by what Jordan did to him, his performance declined immediately after. Barkley looked like a spent soul after Jordan’s and-1 in his 50+ pt game against the Suns. That whole team was never the same.
And call him a ball-hog if you like, but after his early years, MJ learned the balance of when to shoot and when to pass or wait. Those 20+ shots became well timed, often appearing in bursts that served to drive a stake into the heart of the opponents.
As for expansion teams, perhaps it helped the Bulls regular season record a bit, but then, those extra newb teams would have helped all the other seasoned team’s records as well. Then comes the playoffs, and I don’t think expansion teams matter come playoff time, do they?
I can ignore the Washington comments completely. The Wizards were a terrible team. Adding Jordan kept them competitive and filled the stadiums, but expecting any player to come back at nearly 40 after not playing for 3 years, suffer a broken rib in training camp, then season ending knee surgery to propel the WIZARDS to the playoffs is a stretch. Yet, they were close. Yet, Jordan broke many ‘oldest to’ records in those years while averaging over 20 a game. Look at Nash at 40 this year for a comparison.
For his playmaking ability, Jordan was actually underrated if anything. 5 APG for a shooting guard who once averaged 8 per game. Once he accepted the triangle, he and the other Bulls allowed the offence to generate the plays, so it might not have looked like he was Magic running a fast break, but that’s not how the Bulls operated. They had no real point guard those years. Instead, they put guys like Kerr and Paxson and Armstrong out there to fill the open spots for shots while Scottie played more point-forward and Jordan a shooting guard, but in reality the playmaker was the Triangle, and all the Bulls followed that plan.
Jordan didn’t win without Scottie, but even if the Bulls, who still had Phil Jackson, and still ran the same effective Triangle the year Jordan first retired, did well without Jordan, Scottie never won without MJ either. Jordan joined the Bulls as a rookie, and the team was terrible. The East was powerful. Jordan pulled the Bulls up to respectability almost single-handedly, but do you expect titles from that squad? Adding unheralded rooks like Pippen and Grant helped, but not immediately. Remember, Pip scored 8 ppg as a rookie, 14 ppg the year after. This wasn’t the Heat adding Lebron here, this was a guy no one thought of as much of anything at the time. But playing with Jordan and under Jackson allowed Scottie to blossom. If anything, you could say that without being on the Bulls, Pippen doesn’t become a hall-of-famer in the end. Jordan pushed him, pushed all the Bulls, to achieve. The fact that he had better players and a better coach when he won titles isn’t surprising. But Scottie had more talent on the Blazers that Jordan had on the Bulls, and that didn’t work out either.
So, excellent click-bait, in the end, but I’m afraid without enough thought to be taken seriously.
That was well put. To say the teams Jordan played were no good and lacked interior defense in comparison to other eras and championship teams is so dumb. The teams leading up to the finals like the Knicks had some of the better big men of all time i.e Ewing, Motumbo, Shaq etc.
The greatest not only put up good numbers, collect titles and win championships but they have the ability to create a worldwide excitement, inspire children and have a powerful presence wherever they go. Can’t think of anyone who has done this more for basketball than Michael Jordan.
Or, if Jordan got called for an offensive foul like any other player against Bryon Russell, that whole series might end differently.
But we like Mike, he’s like America, never done anything wrong. Now if I lick his Air Jordan’s enough, I’ll be a success too. I’m edgy, because I like what’s popular, love me but I don’t care, but I really do.
JWG said it all, in very good fashion and good, valid points. Saying MJ is the GOAT is not going out on a limb. If I had to name players from each of the four major sports franchises here in North America, I immediately think of Babe Ruth and Hank Aaron of baseball, Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, and Larry Bird of basketball, Wayne Gretzky, Gordie Howe and Mario Lemieux of hockey, and Joe Montana, Tom Brady and Jerry Rice of football. These players truly had a winning spirit, a great sports-oriented IQ, and good athleticism and the ability to keep cool under pressure.
And good old fashioned marketing don’t forget.
How was the league watered down in the 90’s explain please? With teams like Orlando with the duel of penny and Shaq , that Miami team had a good line up with tim Hardaway and etc how was the the league any watered when almost every time in that Era had at least two superstars or one superstar , all star and a great supporting cast? The whole wizards bid…he was 40 then but was still dropping 20 points a game…the only reason why his alltime points per game dropped because his second return. For 3…what nba superstar you know did it all by themselves and still won a ring? The game of basketball is a team sport an if you don’t have another person who can share the offensive scoring load or be an defensive anchor like scottie pippin was then yea…..Jordan would’ve only had stats not the rings to go along with them.
To add to your already amazing response, when playing for the wizards jordan became the first and ONLY player to be over 40 and score 40+ points in a single game
..and was the oldest player ever to score over 50 points in a game..
Hardaway and etc? Who Glen Rice and “Oh! It’s game day” Alonzo Mourning (who was all of Shaq’s weaknesses and none of the strengths)? Real powerhouse there. Watch out showtime, bad boys and Boston white pride of the 80s. These mediocre non-NCAA champions are coming in.
After MJ retired for the first time to play baseball the Bulls had previously won 57 games the next year the Bulls still won 55 games. In Lebron’s last season (until returning) with the Cavs in the 2009-2010 they had won 66 games and they were the worst team in the NBA with a 19-63 a 47 game drop off in wins from just one player compared to when MJ retired for the first time his Bulls only had 2 less wins. I’m not saying Lebron is better or anything but it was just shocking to compare when both players left their teams.
DAVID its a waste of time to reply but LEBRON? for real? haha not even 20% of MJ.. if lebron retired soon after a year or two no body will remember him haha.. JORDAN will still be there and your son will also love him. and dont bather to watch lebron’s history lol.. beat by SPURS old guys..
Jonsanity…..you are insane. 20%? wow you just don’t know sports or basketball. You don’t even present one valid fact. Not one.
You didn’t “bather” to look at his argument. Spurs! Old! You’d better bather apologize to those facts.
Yeah! The refs would never let King James get away with what “greatest defender” got away with.
Sick and tired of this argument. Firstly, you show that you don’t know much about the game when you state “47 game drop off in wins from just one player “. LeBron WAS NOT the only player to leave the Cavs that season, half the roster left with him. Apart from LeBron, Shaq left, Big Z left, West left, Danny Green left and Mo Williams played just 36 games before leaving. That’s 3 regular starters plus two others who started in a few games too. The Cavs were decimated and played like it. Big surprise.
What about MJ’s first retirement? Well essentially it was just him that left. BUT the Bulls also picked up Toni Kukoc (he would go on to win 6th man of the year during his career), Steve Kerr (one of the greatest 3 point shooters of all time) and Luc Longley (who would go on to be the Bulls starting center). These three players combined to average 28/11/8 during that 55 win season while Pippen had an ‘almost MVP’ season going from 18 to 22ppg and adding increasing his rebounding too. That was a damn good team and would have beaten that Cavs team 10 out of 10 times, in fact it would have given the LeBron Cavs team a lot of trouble………but that’s all speculation, the cold hard facts and stats I quoted earlier in this post plainly show that your argument is utter fluff and holds no weight whatsoever.
Because those were star level players to leave, right? Your argument is so tight it said “no, it hurts…oooohhh!”. Regular 538 we got her. Watch out Silver.
to all jordan’s haters.. i bet you are type of people who bet against the bulls during their era.. how much money you guys loose? haha do you play basketball? how can you define good player? i bet this people loves to argue into all best athlete regardless of sports.. in short mayweather fans haha..
Well here is a fact. Pippen and Grant were drafted in 1987. From 1988-1990 the bulls played the Pistons 35 times. The Bulls record was 9-26. Even if you throw out the 1988 season and say Pippen and Grant were just rookies, 1989 Pistons were 6-0 agains the Bulls and 4-2 in the playoffs that’s 2-10. See what happens when the Bulls play a deep and talented team. I thought Jordan’s competitiveness and will to win could overcome any obstacle. Jordan deserves to be on Mt Rushmore of basketball, but he didn’t utilize the talents of his teammates as well as Bird/Magic/Russell. Coincidently only 3 times has this happened in the playoffs where the starting each had 20 pts in the same game, Bird’s Celtics, Russells Celtics and Magic’s Lakers, wouldn’t have anything to do the Captain’s of these teams are the 3 most team oriented players ever. Can an argument be made that Jordan is the GOAT, yes, but it is not definitive and it certainly isn’t blasphemous to say Jordan is not the GOAT
jethuy2 the league was incredibly watered down. 1994 starting point guard all star for the East was BJ Armstrong. That’s a pathetic if he is considered to be a top PG for the entire league 1994 championship, Houston vs Knicks, Olajuwon was amazing and he had a bunch of role players to win the championship. The 1987 Lakers Michael Cooper was Defensive player of the year and did NOT start, not saying there wasn’t talent it was too diluted. When the Celtics won in 86, they had 7 all stars, 5 HOF’s 4 top 50 players and Bird in his prime winning MVP #3. Do you honestly think you’ll see a team with 7 All-stars. By the way their 8th man Jerry Sichting who was not an all star came off the bench shooting 58% FG and he’s a pure jump shooter.
All you all saying Chamberlain is the best are stupid. He was so dominant because of the era he played in. He was bigger than everybody else which is why he got every rebound and scored at will. Be clear, put jordan in any era and he would still dominate, including today’s era
Not true. Get your facts straight. Wilt in his prime would dominate in any era. Shaq was bigger in girth, but Wilt was stronger. Wilt in his prime was benching an astonishing 600 lbs. Would destroy/dominate in any era.
Wilt could bench 600lbs? Absolutely urban legend. As is the myth of 55″ vertical jump and sleeping with 20000 women.
The strongest men in the world have trouble bench pressing over 500 lbs (and at 7+ feet tall and under 300lbs – I’ve read Wilt was 250-275 lbs – it would be impossible unless he took some type of super steroid). For example, the guys competing in the “world’s strongest man” competitions are between 6′ and 6’8″ and weigh 300-450 lbs and still might not bench press 600 lbs – and that’s with shorter arms and a lot more muscle (and probably steroids). As a former professional athlete I’ve personally seen 2 individuals bench press 500+ lbs (raw) and it’s a monstrous feat. Both men were over 300 pounds and around 6’3″. Hell, a bench press over 400 lbs is impressive. 500 is absurd, and 600 is god-like (and usually involves steroids).
The truth is Wilt was a phenomenal athlete (and would be by today’s standards in my opinion), but the myths that people like to perpetuate are exactly that… myth.
It’s very unlikely he slept with 1-2 different women every day for 35+ years. Maybe he slept with 5,000 or maybe even 10,000 women, but 20,000? No way. And maybe he could bench press 450lbs – I’m sure he was strong – but 600lbs? Not a chance. And it’s been reported he had a 39″ vertical and could reach up to 12’9″ – but a 55″ inch vertical? Bullshit. I once saw Boss Bailey (brother of Champ Bailey – NFL CB) record a 50″ vertical and people couldn’t believe it. When you watch the NFL combine and NBA dunk contests guys aren’t able to break 50″ – heck a 40″ vertical is awesome.
Most people have no understanding of athleticism. I have friends that talk about how a 4.8 second 40 yard dash is slow or a 35 inch vertical sucks… yet these same people don’t realize 99% of people in the world have never been able to run that fast or jump that high. For example, if you’re 5’10” and have a 35″ vertical you should be able dunk a basketball (or almost dunk). And most of my friends were shocked to discover they couldn’t break 5.0 seconds in the 40 yard dash, despite being in good shape and fairly athletic.
Anyways, take things you read online with a grain of salt.
I agree that Jordan is overrated, but you didn’t back it up at all. You tried to show that he’s overrated, by saying that his opponents were overrated, and that he was a ballhog. However, he shot a career 50% from the field, and taking 30 shots a game would only make sense for someone so efficient. Also, calling someone overrated simply because his opponents were overrated is a very bad way to make a point. You provide very few solid facts and statistics, and much of this article is very opinionated. Nice clickbait.
cheap shot dude…. Try harder.
Lol!
Jordan is the greatest bcz when it mattered, he came through. Listen to Phil J on his most memorable MJ game, his last coincidentally. . We were 3 down,with 30 secs left, and MJ says we’re gonna score, then strip the ball on their offence..and did just that,and scored-in the finals-who does that?
This is ridiculous. He couldnt get to the playoffs with the Wizards and thats surprising to you? Did you think that 40 year old Jordan, Kwame Brown and Tyronn Lue were the next big 3? That team was garbage. Hamilton was the only player on that roster to have an accomplished career and he was far under his prime when he played with Jordan.
He was a ball hog? Again, did you ever look at that roster he had in his early career? Its not like Pippen and Grant stormed the league and came NBA ready. Next best player after Jordan was Oakley and he was defensive player. What options did he have? Remember when Kobe was getting harassed for taking too many shots in one of the Lakers down years? His response was “Who am I gonna pass to? Kwame Brown?”. You cant blame a star for taking over when theres no one else that can…
He couldnt get past the second round without Pippen? You said yourself that this is a team game. No one wins alone. Bird and Magic were the kings when Jordan came in and they both had stacked teams. They never won alone even though they were both all time greats.
And this expansion BS is nonsense. There were 6 teams that didnt make it past 20 wins in 98… were those teams in the playoffs? No. So what kind of logic is that? Its not just spitting in the face of Jordan, but also taking away from all the greats of that era. You think Ewing, Charles and Malone were crying about expansion? No. It effected every team the same way.
This whole article is taking facts and using them to spin a negative light on Jordan. Not surprising when someone goes out of their way to write an article like this.
Jordan didnt win early on. So what. Its not like he was drafted into a championship ready team like Magic was. And Jordan himself wasnt ready to win a championship. He could score, but it was all about his athleticism early on. He expanded his offensive game to the highest level later on and also became defensive player of the year. His failure to win early on doesnt diminish his greatness like you seem to think it does. Those failures are what drove him to become who he was. The GOAT.
As an avid bulls fan my whole life, you could say I might be a bit biased but at the same time statistics speak for themselves. I can see reinstatement here, bill russell was the winningest basketball player of all time. But during a time where basketball may have had he highest level of competition as it does now. First off the man won a college championship, proceeded to win rookie of the year in arguably one of the greatest draft classes ever. On top of winning DEFENSIVE PLAYER OF THE YEAR IN 88. no one was beating the lakers, or Celtics during that era, even the later bad boy pistons squad. And talk about basketball being a team sport? Lebron left the cavs cause he had no one around him when he got swept by the spurs, so he went to miami wherethey already had 2 stars. Now what happened when michael went to play baseball? Oh yeah, they didn’t make the finals but he came back they won 3 straight….again. Statistically, he averaged career numbers of 30 ppg, 6 rebounds and 5 assists…look at any present day SUPERSTAR they average something like 24/5/5 as mvp numbers. It’s not just cause of rings or trophies, the man practices and elevated his game yearly. His practice habits were unheard of, when the man came into an arena everyone went just to see michael. He was the mismatch no matter who guarded him. He dunked countless times over above average big men (baseline over ewing) so say all you want about wilt, magic, bird, lebron(lol) kobe or whoever. But facts are facts mj is the GOAT and will continue as so until another shooting guard can captivate the nation with their shots or dunking ability. Did i mention when did you ever give the ball to michael for a game winner and he didn’t hit it?
Michael Jordan did miss game winners routinely. I watched during the golden age of basketball also. Yes he did hit clutch game winners, but the only one that get shown in highlights are the ones he made. Lest we forget that the last Bulls championship where he hit the clutch shot to win he also CLEARLY pushed off to create space for that shot. But who is going to call that against a superstar? Just sayin’.
haha stop reading after this idiot said lebron may be the best ever. MJ- 6-0 in the finals the best clutch player and scorer of all time and elite defender with amazing leading skills he could jump like there was no gravity and run like a cheetah also had the heart of a champion something lebron doesnt have top 5 players ever- jordan, magic, jabar, wilt, and then russel or bird
The Detroit Pistons with Isaiah Thomas and the bad boys were very good team. The New York Knicks had Patrick Ewing and the Magic had shaq. New York didnt surround Ewing with good players. They still had ewing.
The Bulls were able to beat those two very good defensive teams
This article reads like an assignment forced onto a student who knows nothing about basketball but still has to write the paper.
Dealing with your top 5 arguments:
#5 – “When he won, he won because he scored instead of passing for others to score.” Not sure what the problem is here.
#4- “He lost to extremely good teams when he played them by himself.” So you can’t be the best player in a team sport if you don’t win every year? So there is no “best ever” player in the NBA?
#3- “He might be the best player, but also he might not be but I’m not sure how to qualify it so I’ll just say he might not be.” Why did you write this article?
#2- “There were 6 teams who were really bad, and that made it really easy for the rest of the league to make the playoffs.” Except that every year only 16 teams make it to the playoffs anyway, so it doesn’t really matter the quality of anyone outside the conversation.
#1- “Other teams’ records suffered more when a player left, particularly the 3 teams I’m mentioning who went into full rebuilding mode.” That is why their records dropped. To be more accurate, compare Bulls 97-98 to 98-99. -49 wins.
This is a very interesting article. Very rarely do I see someone write a full length article on why Michael Jordan is not the greatest so kudos to you for going against the grain.
Based on this criteria, this is how I determine who are the greatest players of all-time:
A. Player must be in the Hall of Fame
B. Player must have multiple NBA Titles
C. Player must have multiple Finals MVPs
D. Player must have multiple League MVPs
With that said, here’s my list of the greats (my Mount Rushmore if you will):
1. Michael Jordan (6 NBA Titles, 6 Finals MVPs, 5 League MVPs)
2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (6 NBA Titles, 2 Finals MVPs, 6 League MVPs)
3. Magic Johnson (5 NBA Titles, 3 Finals MVPs, 3 League MVPs)
4. Larry Bird (3 NBA Titles, 2 Finals MVPs, 3 League MVPs)
Honorable Mention: Bill Russell (11 NBA Titles, no Finals MVPs, 5 League MVPs)
While I understand and respect the points in your article, it’s difficult to argue against the credentials I listed above because Jordan’s success comes from individual and team accomplishments.
Good grief. Eleven rings in thirteen years. Bill Russell would be just as dominate in any era. The big men of today get gassed after nine minutes and have to sit. Russell and Chamberlain were forty eight minute players. Game in and game out. Wilt once had an entire season where he sat out seven minutes for,the WHOLE year. Shaquille was big and mobile but both Russell and Wilt would have gassed him by running the floor. MJ was terrific but here is the real set of facts. In the thirteen years of Bill Russell’s run he was the only one who was there the whole time. MJ had a constant supporting cast and when he took his year off the Bulls still went to game seven of the Eastern Conference. The year after Russell retired the Celtics finished last. I saw Russell play against the Atlanta Hawks in his last season playing. They didn’t stat blocked shots then but a friend of mine and I counted the blocks against a good Hawks team that had a six foot eleven Walt Bellamy at center and Walt Hazard, Don Hudson and Pogo Joe Caldwell. Russell blocked eleven shots in the first half and had five in the second because the Hawks quit taking it inside. Russell had sixteen points and twenty four rebounds. But he took the entire Hawks team out of their game with the shot blocks. Russell was incredible. The brainiest basketball player in history. Twelve and zero in seventh games. As they say ENOUGH SAID.
mJ never lost in the finals period MJ would have won more rings now with the rules and yes MJ would Rule.
Wow this was the worsttttt article I have ever read. First you say Jordan one when the NBA added expansion teams thus deluding the talent. Pleaseeeee Bill Russell won his championships when there just were just 6-8 teams in the playoffs only having to go thru 2 rounds instead of 4. Your argument on that is backwards (it was tougher when Jordan played, more teams = more competition). Then you say Jordan could not lead the Wizards to the playoffs.. The Wizards were a bad team. Adding one non top 10 nba player to a bad team (someone like Kyrie Irving could not lead the Cavs to the playoffs in the East last year). You have no knowledge of basketball. The other thing you said is that Jordan beat weak team?! First off the Blazers as you described them does not give them justice, guys like Buck Williams, Terry Porter, Kevin Ducksworth, Cliff Robinson and Clyde Drexler were all Allstars around that time (the team made it to the finals twice in 1990 and 1992). Furthermore in the 90s Jordan beat all of the best of that error (Miller, Ewing, Payton, Barkley, Stockton and Malone). One last point why Jordan is the best is that he did not have a rival. (people can argue Russell v. Chamberlain or Bird v. Magic but Jordan never had a peer on his level, he was head and shoulders above Barkley, Robinson and the other 90s stars)… You are a hater (PS I am life long knick fan but i give credit where credit is due)
I started writing a long rebuttal to this nonsense, but the easy response to this is that you are obviously too young to have watched Jordan in his prime. Almost everybody who saw Jordan in his prime knows he is the GOAT. There are plenty of numbers to support this argument (5 time MVP, career PER leader, 10 time scoring champ, 9 time all defensive team, undefeated in the finals, etc., etc.,etc.). If you saw Jordan play, you would also realize that he accomplished a lot of this even though teams were double and triple-teaming him. The Pistons would take constant cheap shots at him. He was an unstoppable force. I understand that a lot of hype surrounds Michael Jordan, and maybe that puts some people off. In the case of Michael Jordan, the hype is warranted.
Did watch Jordan in his prime and I will say that he is the most exciting player to ever play the game, but not the GOAT. Wilt Chamberlain is the GOAT hands down. Wilt would dominate in any era. During his prime the man was benching a ridiculous 600 lbs. and playing in a more rough and tumble league than the Jordan era. The Pistons wouldn’t have even been called the bad boys in the Chamberlain era where if you left your feet on the court to attempt a dunk the defensive man would put you in the third row…just ask Bob Petit.
If youre going to argue against Jordan at least present good arguments…good lord. Using a young player’s naivete and then his old age against him is ridiculous. Every young player needs to learn how to play in the league, and every aging superstar is going to fail with a garbage team around them. Every successful team needs at least two great players and he finally got that with Pippen. His competition was top notch and chock full of hall of famers (Ewing, Miller, Pistons, Magic, Drexler, Barkley, Stockton and Malone, Payton) both to get out of the East and then to win the finals. Excuses made or not they were still Hall of Famers. The lack of a low post player for the Jazz means nothing bc the Bulls didnt have a dominant center and didnt even need one bc they ran the triangle offense. Im all for an intelligent argument but this one contradicts itself at every turn.
this article is just plain dumb…Jordan must have ruined a lot of dreams of whomever wrote this. The headings for each pointless point said it all. Somebody actually got paid to right this?
This is laughable. People ALWAYS trying to discredit someone! Jordan helped push Pip to a high level. This was bc of work ethic! MJ is the greatest! This weak article needs to be put in the garbage!
MJ IS THE MAN, when u think of The NBA, u think of one player. Michael Jordan…… This article is BULL…..
When you think of NBA you think of Jordan because of NIKE. Jordan was great…Wilt was better.
31.1 CAREER ppg avg… Just STOP IT!
Wilt would have at least a 45 career ppg and the all time scoring title if he hadn’t changed his game to a more passing center instead of scoring center towards the end of his career. 100 points in a game…Nuff said.
We can debate this topic all day about who is GOAT. The players that make the BASKETBALL HOF are considered the be that best that ever played the game. I have watched plenty of players in my lifetime, way before Jordan, Magic, Kobe and LeBron. I seen players play from the 60’s until now. This will always be a topic from today until the end of time. But, I will say this Magic, Bird and Jordan changed the game when the game need a boost. Wilt and Russell will forever be the dominant centers until Shaq and Olajuwon came along. There are players that will be disliked Jordan, Bird just two just to name a few. The writer make his points just like the rest of the fans that left their comments. In today’s game it about how many titles you can win to get you in the topic of GOAT. Back in the day players didn’t make the money that they do now. The jury is out on LeBron in my opinion. He has accomplished a lot of thing in his short tenure being in the NBA. But, as a player he is the best the game has right now. I know what your saying, what about KD he’s hurt and his teammate is nothing without him. Curry but Chris Paul will be in the discussion as the best shooting guards at this moment see how the debate continues. Every fan has their player that they like and will defend them until the end. But, I’m a fan of the game and I look at a lot of players. The Big “O” Dr,J, Willis Reed, Earl the Pearl, Walt Frazier, Bernard King, the list can go on and on. You have your favorites like I do and become a fan of the game like I know a lot of you are. JORDAN is one one my favorites and LeBron is another and I have others as well. Let the debate continue Regardless of what a person writes it will not stop me from like who I like.
He is not the greatest because of his scoring ability or how many titles he won or any other number. He is the GOAT because he changed the game. More kids dream to be like Mike than any player before or after him. He took the sport to the next level of entertainment. NBA was the number one sport league during his reign. NBA uniforms changed because of MJ. We might all still be playing in Daisy Duke shorts if Mike didnt make baggy shorts popular! Lol! Just like some may not consider Ali to be the greatest boxer of all time because of his record or who he may have lost to. But his affect on boxing inside and outside the ring makes him the greatest. GOAT cant be measured in numbers alone. But by the legacy you leave behind. No one comes close to Mikes and Ali’s legacy!
to add to Van Rome’s points…. Jordan did all of this without the INTERNET to promote him. Think about that. No HD videos that we can replay on youtube. Just standard definition stuff and yet he crushed it.
He crushed it because NIKE put his face everywhere. No need for internet when your face is already everywhere.
Wilt changed the game in his day like Mike did in his. People could dunk before Wilt they just didn’t because you were most likely going to have your feet taken out from under you by the defensive player of that era. No one did that to Wilt because he was the strongest player playing the game. He was benching 600 lbs. He would dominate in any era.
HAHAHAHA!! Good one! Is it April 1?
Anyone who doesn’t think Jordan is the greatest either never saw him play or doesn’t know crap about crap or is just trolling. I think this is the latter.
Lmao, reporters lol
i have to laugh here.
hey kid, what world you living?
so, Mj has to choose the opponents ?
ridiculous data!
you probably even look at a real game of basketball to talk about it.
grow up
This Has Got To Be The Stupidest Column I’ve Ever Read This Guy Needs To Be Fired Immediately
First, not everything you say are facts are actually facts. The idea that the Jazz were better in the 80’s isn’t a fact. It’s not even remotely close to being true. Malone, Stockton, and Hornacek are all Hall of Famers.
Second, the claim that Lebron is a more efficient scorer isn’t true. Their FG%’s are almost identical (.496 for Lebron and .497 for Jordan). Jordan was an 83% FT shooter while Lebron is a 74% FT shooter. Lebron’s 3PT% is .342 while Jordan’s was .327 so he is better there. In the playoffs though Jordan shot .487 from the field while Lebron dips to .477 and Lebron’s 3PT shooting drops to .319 against Jordan’s .332.
As far as Jordan’s playmaking ability he has the second longest triple double streak in history behind Wilt Chamberlain with 7 straight triple doubles. In 89 Jordan averaged 8APG. He was certainly a capable playmaker. Comparing his playmaking ability to someone like Magic Johnson isn’t fair because Jordan wasn’t asked to be a point guard. He also didn’t have to create as much as other superstars because his scoring ability was far better than anyone else who played the game.
Your argument that he wasn’t as dominant in the 80’s also doesn’t hold water. Jordan didn’t enter the league until 84. You’re penalizing him for not beating the 85-86 Celtics? That team had Bird, McHale, and Parrish in their primes. It was Jordan’s second year in the league. Yes the Pistons beat him in the late 80’s. They had a superior roster and used any means available to stop Jordan at the rim.
You also can’t credit the Pistons of the 80’s for beating Jordan and then turn around and say he never beat any of the good teams from the 80’s. The Pistons were the back-to-back defending champions with virtually the same roster and they got swept by the Bulls.
Also your claim that the 90’s weren’t a good era for basketball is patently absurd. Post play and center play in the 90’s were far and away better than they are today. There isn’t a center in the NBA today better than Hakeem Olajuwon, David Robinson, Patrick Ewing, or Shaquille O’Neal. Jordan was going to the basket in the best era for centers in league history. In addition to those four HoFers you also had Alonzo Mourning and Dikembe Mutombo who were both defensive monsters in the paint.
Jordan’s accomplishments speak for themselves. 6 NBA Titles, 6 Finals MVPs, 6-0 in the NBA Finals, 2 Olympic Gold Medals, 10 Time Scoring Champion, 5 MVPs, 1 DPoY, 3 Time Steals Leader, 14 Time All-Star, 11 All NBA Teams, 9 All Defensive Teams, Rookie of the Year, 2 Time Slam Dunk Champion, 2 Time Olympic Gold Medalist.
He holds the regular season records for most consecutive scoring titles, highest scoring average, seasons with an average above 30ppg, career 30 point games with 562, oldest player to lead the league in scoring (at 35), oldest player to score 50 (at 38), oldest player to score 40 (at 40).
He holds the playoff records for points, points per game, 50 point games, 40 point games, 30 point games, 20 point games, points in one post season, points in one game, field goals made in one game, free throws made.
He holds NBA Finals records for PPG in a series (41!), consecutive 40 point games, consecutive 20 point games (every game in his Finals career!), points in a half, consecutive FG’s made.
Other records he holds are All-Defensive First Team Selections (9), blocked shots for a guard (893), highest PER for a career (27.91), first player in history with 200 steals and 100 blocks in a season, first player in history to win Rookie of the Year, Defensive Player of the Year, and MVP in his career; first player to win MVP and DPoY in the same season.
And oh yeah, he was on the team with the most wins in the history of the league (72-10).
Jordan wasn’t just the greatest scorer of all time, he was the greatest scorer of all time by a wide, wide margin. You list 10 reasons that are debatable at best; but make no real case for another player to supplant Jordan. Make the case for that player and I guarantee you there will be more arguments against them than there are against Michael Jordan.
AMEN!!!
There is no one that comes close to what he has accomplished!!!
Throw in the fact that no one has impacted the NBA like he did, the amount of games he sold out and how he handled himself off the court. Check out this link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a57OYN-gTVo
Not only is he clearly the the GOAT, but probably the GOAT athlete as well….
He never got to play against Erving’s great Sixers teams because he wasn’t in the league champ… Major flaws in this article.
Ummmmm. …..I couldn’t be more disgusted with the words I have had to cut short due to lack of facts and wide pane of opinions. Clearly one of your “overrated” teams must have gotten beaten by the bulls of his Era. Or is it that you are to young to tell? Or maybe it’s it your inexperience in analyzing sports? Whatever it is you should be ashamed to even spend time thinking about writing this. LeBron more efficient shooter????? Teams overrated? ??? You might be better off writing about sitcoms or movies because clearly sports is not in your category of hobbies.
I think the article makes good points, especially with him not winning until Pippin came along but if you also think about it, this man changed the game as we know it, However, i don’t think its fair to call him just the GOAT, many other players are in that discussion as well. For me personally, its Kareem, MJ is a close second.
This person that helped me find a new job told me that Wilt Chamberlain always played close to the basket & that you’re taking the best stats from different players & comparing them to just one guy because no one else compares one to one. He also told me that Michael made his team better & that Scottie Pippen was a better player with Michael Jordan than he was without MJ just like how Karl Malone was with John Stockton.
Wilt did not take best stats from other players. In fact towards the latter part of his career he changed up his game from being a prolific scorer avg. 50 points a game to handing out assists left and right. Wilt also did not always play close to the basket. He could shoot from the outside and was at times clutch at the free throw line.
Jordan is trash. LeBron is the greatest player of all time.
Michael Jordan was able to slam dunk it from the free-throw line which is 15′ from the basket. He was also able to swish it by throwing it over people who are defending him. I don’t know anyone else who can do that! I’ve never seen Lebron James do that either. So you’re +100% wrong about Michael Jordan!
LMAO! Jordan better because of dunking? Give me a break. So stupid.
Studip…? Saying Jordan is trash is stupid!
Refer to ‘Sawyer’ comments half a page back on what Jordan has accomplished. Now compare that to what Lebron has…. Lebron is an unbelievable player but has a long way to go before he can be GOAT…..
LeBron weighed like 45 more pounds than Jordan in his career and could run faster down the court and almost jump as high as Jordan with the weight disadvantage.
You have also just described Julius Erving. The first to take off from the foul line and dunk it.
If you ever watched Michael Jordan move on the court, you would understand why he had fans, competitors and officials in his back pocket. MJ had the most swagger in recorded history, period. No one else is even close.
I already knew from the very start of this article that lebrons name will be bargain to be the greatest.. but its too far to pass jordan.. your facts and stats will remain and stick as they are.but as far as I know jordan is still the GOAT for more than 10 reasons!
The intesity of the game. The game mode.the game style Jordan brought to NBA made him the greatest. Defense before is tight arm lock hand checking is legal.. holding an opponent off the ball is also legal.. but still jordan manage to escape this.. the jordan rule. Todays NBA is a soft one. One touch of yoir opponents hair can cause you a foul!
Since I’m a casual basketball fan there is ‘some’ relevance to your list as to why Michael Jordan is NOT the best basketball player ever. In the 1979-80 post-ESPN world, most everything seems to hinge on MJ’s almighty greatness of all things with a basketball. Hope people note that he’s a pathetic owner.
Your list was noteworthy but all that was needed was five questions of the ‘yes or no’ variety to come to grips with the FACT Jordan isn’t the best ever.
Here are the 5 queries:
1) Did Jordan ever average for a season at least 50 points a game?
Answer – No. Wilt, and only Wilt, performed the feat.
2) Did Jordan ever score at least 100 points in an NBA game?
Answer – No. Wilt again for this one. Only Chamberlain performed this feat.
3) Did Jordan ever average for a season a Triple Double?
Answer – No. This incredible trifecta belongs to the great Oscar Robertson in 1961-62.
4) Has Jordan ever won the most regular season MVP awards?
Answer – Again, no. Lew Alcindor aka Kareem Abdul-Jabbar won 6 to MJ’s 5.
5) Has Jordan ever won the most NBA championships?
Answer – Finally, another ‘no’. Jordan has a respectable 6 yet pales in comparison to Bill Russell’s 11 NBA titles in 13 years. During his career, MJ doesn’t have the most rings. Robert Horry is in possession of 7 rings.
Anyway, these 5 questions/answers are enough for me when I get into debates with friends who although more basketball savvy then I can’t argue with these glaring deficiencies as far as Jordan being given the ESPN crown of Best Ever. Gimme a break. Jordan doesn’t make my Top Ten!
I was born in 1989 & I’ve read how tall Wilt Chamberlain is a few times on Wikipedia. The reason why Wilt Chamberlain scored 100 points to me is that he was 7′ 1″ tall & could just drop it into the basket with his long arms, but Michael Jordan is only 6′ 6″ tall and wasn’t tall enough to drop it into the basket. The basket is 10′ high.
My dad has told me that Michael Jordan was told to shoot all those baskets. All my friends, family, girlfriend, & I know that Michael Jordan was a team player and was trying to help his team. So he was a team player & Kobe Bryant is a one man team player and he thinks he’s the best.
Michael Jordan was able to slam dunk it from the free-throw line which is 15′ from the basket.
This person that helped me find a new job told me that Wilt Chamberlain always played close to the basket & that you’re taking the best stats from different players & comparing them to just one guy because no one else compares one to one. He also told me that Michael made his team better & that Scottie Pippen was a better player with Michael Jordan than he was without MJ just like how Karl Malone was with John Stockton.
So Air Jordan was just showing his team how it’s done. He was also a very unique player & did a lot that others can’t!
So he’s a team player because of all the stuff he did for his team & Kobe Bryant is a one man team player by thinking he’s the best!
Michael Jordan also has an app called MJ BBall on smart phones that has videos about different things you do in basketball for you to watch. He teaches & shows you what to do when you’re playing offense & defense step by step in those videos. There are also videos under Q&A that have to do with him (for example: he tells you his favorite move, how to become a better basketball player, how he improved his shooting, how to improve your jumping, and a lot more!
No one else in the NBA has videos that help you become a better basketball player!
So that proves that Michael Jordan is the best player on Earth!
Wow, Jordan not in your top ten. You clearly know what your talking about!!!!
1) No Jordan didn’t average 50 point a game for a whole season. But when your in such a weak league, with poor defense and your WAY taller and heavier than everyone else, this isn’t really a surprise is it?
2) No Jordan didn’t score 100 points in a game, but with Wilt TOWERING over the rest of the guys on the court, when basketball was all about small ball and the average height was 6 foot, with his teammates deliberately passing him the ball so he could score that much, with the talent and skill level in those days being so good, the game wasn’t even filmed! This feat just couldn’t be accomplished in the modern game!!!
3) Nope, no triple double average for a season, but he does have the record for the most consecutive games with a triple double. Also back in those days, the league was weak, small and had not governed properly so all the best players were on the the same team (only 10 teams back then!) So silly records like this from that era will NEVER be repeated!
4) No, he’s second with a number of seasons where it was debatable that he should have won it, so could have easily had more. So what that he has one less than Kareem, does this mean that he’s not GOAT…? It’s only one stat. Have a look at how many categories that Jordan dominates in! (rings, scoring titles, steals, MVP’s, finals MVP’s, PER average, dunk contests, scoring average, total points, playoff ppg, playoff spg, playoff PER, 6-0 in finals appearances, defensive 1st team apperances, defensive player of the year, all NBA first teams, all star appearances, all star averages, was the best player on the greatest team ever assembled (The Dream Team) and I can go on and on……
5) Yes but Jordan NEVER lost when he made it to the finals. Also, in the 60’s the league was very different, lopsided, small (10 teams) and not governed well (all the best players on the same teams) so it’s no wonder Bill won 11 titles. And your saying that Robert Horry has 7 rings…. he is defiantly one of the all time greats….??? And how many teams did he play for to get those 7 rings!!! Also lead his team to the best win loss record in history (72-10)
So according to your argument, he has to be no 1 in every category…?
How about people here that believe that Jordan isn’t GOAT, name me one better player with 10 reasons why they are better…..
The average height during Wilt era only one inch shorter than Jordan era. Wilt also played against centers taller and bigger than him albeit not stronger than him. The game was more rough and tumble back then with not hand checking, but actual body checking people into the third row at times. You were at risk of hitting the deck every time you left your feet in those days…just ask great Bob Petit.
This guy doesn’t have a clue about Basketball ! I’m a Lakers fan , and even I know that michael Jordan is the best player of all time ! There won’t be another MJ plain and simple ! Not Kobe , or LeBron can compare to what Michael Jordan did over his career . When the game was on the line everyone knew who was getting the ball . the coaches knew it the players knew it and the fans knew it . and there’s nothing anyone could do about it ! So MJ is the greatest player of all time ! With Kareem Abdul Jabbar , Magic Johnson , and Larry Bird to follow . END OF STORY !!
I think what bothers me most about this list is number 2. The NBA was “really bad”? I am trying to figure out how you came to this conclusion. Apparently because there were 6 teams that didn’t win more than 20 games. Let’s look at the NBA as a whole that season and then the NBA as a whole, in 2014 – 2015. In 97-98 there were 6 teams that did not make it past 20 wins, 7 that did not surpass 30, and 11 teams under .500. There were 10 teams that had 50 or more wins and 4 of those were in the central division (same division as the Bulls). This means that the Bulls played these teams more often than everyone else in the league during the regular season. There were four 60 win teams that year as well. There were 18 teams that had a win percentage of .500 or better and 10 of them were in the Easter Conference (Michael Jordan played in the Eastern Conference). There were no teams with a winning percentage under .500 in the playoffs. I am sure I could continue but I will move over to the 14 – 15 NBA. There were 3 teams that did not make it past 20 wins, 6 that did not pass 30, and 13 teams under .500. There were also 10 teams that had over 50 wins and 7 of those were in the Western conference (Lebron plays in the eastern conference). There were 2 teams with 60 or more wins. There were 16 teams that had a win percentage of .500 or better and 7 of them were in the Eastern Conference. There was one team with a winning percentage under .500 in the playoffs.
This is why number 2 should not be on the list. To say that Jordan walked to the finals that year is, by the statistics, way off. You would have had a better argument with the 96 – 97 season or even the 95 – 96 season. In 95 – 96 there were 13 teams under .500 and in 96 – 97 there were 16 teams under .500. To say that the 97 – 98 season was one of the least talented seasons in NBA history is also way off. Seriously, 10 teams with 50 or more wins and 4 with 60 or more wins, along with 18 teams .500 or better. All I have to say to that is, come on man. Your 20 wins argument is ridiculous. There were only 7 teams that didn’t win 30 or more games in the 97 – 98 season. This year in the NBA there were 6. This is your definition of one of the worst season in NBA history?
I could continue through the list of 10 but I do not have the time nor the interest. I saw this one and could not let it go because it is one of the most inaccurate things I have ever seen on an article about why Jordan is not the greatest of all time. I am all for a good debate about Jordan but if you are going to throw out statistics, you have to give the big picture and not just what you want people to see. If this were an actual debate, you would have nothing to back your statement. The statistics just do not support it. Now I guess we could dive deeper into the stats, like scoring average and what not but seriously, wins and loses are pretty telling here.
Your point about him being a ball hog is ridiculous for 3 specific reasons
1.His Team
Jordan did not have the team to pass the ball. The greatest player on his team he had was Scottie Pippen, and even he was an average NBA player.
2. It wasn’t his fault
The team went to him time and time and time again. The reason he was a ball hog was because they wanted him to ball hog! He was such a playmaker, they just gave him the ball and let him do him.
3. Great players are supposed to
Players that put the team on there back need to ball hog, or they can’t put the team on there back. Jordan didn’t pass because he knew that team needed him to make plays.
Not to mention the name of his position is called “Shooting Guard”.
Yes his team mates wanted him to have the ball, but he would have taken it anyway. He was such an ego maniac that when someone wouldn’t give him the ball (just watch 95/96 finals if you don’t believe me) he was in your face.
whoever wrote this doesn’t know what he’s talking about…those 10 reasons are also the 10 reasons why he should be the greatest coz he make other teams very vulnerable and makin chicago invincible…do your homework dude….and you say ball hog? do u even know how to play basketball?
You have to be the dumbest person on the planet! He played and defeated SEVERAL OF THE TOP 50 greatest players of all time. So by your stance of dilution of talent. No one after 1990 can be considered the GOAT. He was 6-0 in NBA FINALS WITH 6 MVPS! He won an average of 69 games his last 3 years with the Bulls. You Are a moron. Let’s vote for Wilt or Russell who played against nobody. Let’s vote Magic or Bird?! Tell me who the best player in your mind is because I’ll rebut your garbage claims. Jordan averaged 35 in the Finals. He never let the Finals go to 7 games. Lebron? Nope because this league is diluted and he’s 2-4 in finals and should be 1-5.
There always will be haters is all I gots to say lol good luck with your view
You lose me when you try to say Michael isn’t the GOAT, but then include Lebron in your statement of who CAN claim the throne. This author is entitled to his opinion; however, that doesn’t mean it’s right.
Wow what a biased clown.
One of the lowest quality sports journalism pieces I have ever read. It’s an opinion piece, I get that…it’s just designed to get eyeballs and people talking.
oh god give it a rest as diverst a game as basketball is there can never be only one real “the greatest player ever”. Theres just too much variables and things to consider to really come up with a finite answer. The best we can ever come up will only be the greatest player of all time “FOR YOU”.
Mr. Madison, what you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I’ve ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response was there anything that could even be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul!”
This is the lamest article ever written. This author is so salty he’s looking for any excuse to try to marginalize Jordan’s transcendent greatness. Newsflash buddy – Michael Jordan is, without a doubt, the greatest of all time. Everyone who knows anything about basketball, including former players, coaches, and analysts, overwhelming agree. And it isn’t because of ESPN. It’s because they know basketball, and it’s actually obvious that he’s the greatest of all time. Painfully obvious.
Hear, Hear!
Bro, its not just about athletisism or great teammates or stats and number of wins. Its also about the heart and the will to win of a player. Jordan pretty much won on those top two categories. Obviously, youre not with the jordan greatest player fan club but you might want to rethink your article.
Same kind of argument can be made for every “Great Player” you’ve mentioned.
I’ve watched the NBA for over 40 years and I can say with 100% certainty that Jordan’s era was the most entertaining of all time.
I’m surprised the author did not mention that Jordan only won under one coach–the greatest of them all–Phil Jackson. It matters. I’m not sure anyone else could get a team like Jordan’s Bulls to play together. Without Phil, MJ has zero rings.
I also noticed that Phil had two years to get a title WITHOUT Michael. I see that did not quite work out for him. No, Michael going 6 for 6 is hard for LeBron or anyone else to overcome, because he would not be denied a title. He never shut down, never shriveled up and died. He always came back and always won.
My Mount Rushmore of Basketball (in no order–all can be argued as GOAT:
-JORDAN (6 rings, 6 Finals MVPs, 5 league MVPs, astonishing acrobatics)
-KAREEM (6 rings, 6 league MVPs, all-time leading scorer, 19-time All-star, took team to playoffs 18 times, 10 Finals appearances, most astonishing long-term success)
-WILT (100 point game, averaged 50 points and 25 rebounds one season, 2 rings, 4 league MVPs, most astonishing short-term success)
-RUSSELL (11 rings, 5 league MVPs, most winningest player)
As I read this article I found myself wondering if the writer is even qualified to write it. There are many greats in the history of the game of basketball, each contributing something unique and different. However, no player prior to nor following MJ have contributed more or made a bigger impact. The watered down NBA of today doesn’t even deserve the same classification as the one where Bird and Magic ruled the court. Then along came Sir Airness! Mike elevated the game to heights that had not been seen before or replicated since. This is easily supported by the many olympic teams that have try ed to live up to original DREAM TEAM without any success. The one reason this Ill educated author asserted was MJ’S inability to lead Washington to a championship. Are you kidding me! The fact that he could step on the court at his age and provide the nucleus needed to a bad news bear organization that until then was the laughing stock of the NBA only supports the greatest player ever claims. He was a ball hog? Please show me a team who does not feed their best scorer or build an offense around them. A good player knows and accepts their role on their team. The number of rings each Bulls player sports proves that each of them knew and accepted their roles. Michael could not have achieved the same level of success without Scottie? Absolutely! Again, showing his greatness. The fact that 2 great players can coexist with such success speaks to not only the physical greatness but the mental greatness of each player. The only players contesting the title belonging to Michael are the ones that never played against him. It is easy to make yourself a god without having to actually defend the claim. However, any player having actually stepped onto the court with Mike supports the title. It is truly hard to establish a pecking order within an institution that has existed for so long. However each Era presents different venues with different pros and cons. Although, anyone who cannot see that the greatest player the NBA has ever experienced, played during one of the strongest surges of talent the NBA has ever seen, needs to buy a pair of glasses. I mean no disrespect to any of the greats that have graced the courts. But when assigning #1, it is a nobrainer! Michael Jordan can’t be touched.
@Julie the same could be said about any of the other greats. Why should MJ be considered the greatest when he never played against Wilt? As far as dominance, no one compares to Wilt in his prime. But…Wilt only won 2 rings. So maybe it’s Kareem. MJ never played against Kareem in any of the years Kareem won one of his record 6 league MVP’s (and only went to finals 6 years, compared to Kareem’s 10, only went to playoffs 13 years, compared to Kareem’s 18, etc.). So how can you say MJ is the greatest? You can’t. Who cares what people who played against MJ said? They never played against Wilt, Russell, or Kareem either…
This is just silly.
I grew up in all the era 60,70 I watched a lot of good basketball player wilt it was the most dominant player ever seen in my life my next favorite player Dr J he don’t get no he changed the game he made room for all those guys to be playing ball in making money Michael Jordan got his motivation from Dr J and the player that would have been better than Michael Jordan died before he had a chance to even play cause he dominated Michael Jordan in college and that’s len now LeBron is changing the game because we never had a prototype like him he don’t have to have all but Jordan have to be effective when he does is effective when you do make everybody around him better and he always take a team that don’t have anybody on it to the finals I don’t know anybody in NBA history has done that is coming from my old school had been around and I play basketball for Bob Huggins one of the greatest coaches in the country so I understand the game.
There’s no one player that is the greatest they always great in the Era and their time and for what they brought to the table to me what makes a great player great when they change the game from because of their game and the game changes for everybody to make the path for the next person to come along, to me that’s what constitute a great player.
Making comparisons on players should be like horse racing. The best sprinter, the best grass horse or miler. Guards, forwards, centers play different roles. you cant compare one to the other. Michael Jordan you can say was the greatest shooting guard of all time. Kareem was the greatest center of all time. Magic played all the positions even center when Kareem went down to beat a team with doctor j Darrel Dawkins Maurice cheeks. he was a 6’9 point guard that is unheard of today. he made everyone on his team a scoring machine not just one or two players by his passing ability and unselfish play. and could drop 40 on you if he had to. He beat the Celtics when all their players was in their prime. Larry bird, Denise Johnson, cornbread Maxwell, Robert Parrish Kevin McHale. To me you can say he was the greatest because there was no position he couldn’t play(center, forward, point guard] and he was a very good defensive player also. and has the rings to prove it. there is exciting players on all teams today and throughout history some never won rings Dominic Wilkins Charles Barkley Bernard king ,Patrick Ewing , but most of them only played one position or was role players. In their prime and position you can make a case for many players. But Magic Played all the Positions and won championships. who else can you say that about?
@Cornel It’s hard to compare positions, but some stats/honors can apply to any position: MVPs, points, rebounds, championships, wins, all-star call-ups. I’m not sure about the value of a player being able to play “any position.” There are always 5 guys out there. That’s like saying Michael Vick is one of the greatest quarterbacks because he can run. I would rather have a good quarterback, whether he can run or not. Magic was great, but if he was so valuable why did he receive 3 league MVPs compared to Kareem’s 6? I think you have to give it to the guy with the most actual accomplishments–most points, most MVPs, most playoff appearances, most all-star call-ups. As Dr. J said after calling Kareem the greatest, “c’mon, why be a hater?”
Wow who ever wrote this must be close to Spike Lee and a Knicks fan and now he lives in Utah and now he goes for Cleveland oh wait you must of gone for Heat at one point too.. You really research your history so might have to do your research on other players you mention Russell, Wilt, you know what just question the whole sport and just consider Jordan an NBA player…people like just want to write something get people to write about cause if you were to write an article on LeBron James many people won’t read it they just rather read something that sounds ridiculous….
1. While MJ is one of the best ever, he is not the best. That nod goes to Wilt Chamberlain, in my mind. It’s like this: Wilt basically said to Jordan that they make everything easier for him, and in his (Wilt’s day), they changed the rules to make it harder. Case closed.
2. Those Bull teams were good, but they were benefactors of circumstance. Besides expansion watering down the league, the Celtics didn’t have Bias, and the Blazers never added a guy by the name of Arvydas Sabonis until the fall of 1995.
Imagine the 1990-91 Celtics (who started 29-5 until Bird got hurt) with Bias instead of Bird (who would have retired in 88 or 89 if they had Bias), and the 63-win Blazers of that same year with a healthy Sabonis. Think the Bulls are winning the title? Think again.
Also, speaking of the 92 Blazers, they also had Buck Williams and Terry Porter as well, so they were not exactly chopped liver. However, they were on the decline. Their 91 team was the best of their three early-90’s teams.
lmao “mj was a ball hog”
HIS WHOLE TEAM RELIED ON HIM TO SCORE, IF YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT BASKETBALL OR YOU IF EVEN WATCHED JORDAN PLAY YOU WOULD KNOW THAT HE WAS THE MOST UNSTOPPABLE BASKETBALL PLAYER EVER.
You say his whole team relied on him to score? Do your homework. In the 90’s, Pippen averaged around 20 pig, while MJ averaged 30.
The author must be too young to know how great MJ was. Even the NBA HOF players that Jordan beat admit that MJ was a different caliber of a player. No need to explain my point. Just look at the sales ohfHIs Airness shoes, sales record don’t lie. Even though MJ retired so many years ago, no other player was able to make record sales of a product bearing his name. I was not a fan of Jordan before. Finally after MJ took his 6th championship, i was finally convinced that he was one of a kind.
Be ashamed of yourself for writing this rubbish…..
The author is an amateur. This is one of the dumbest articles I’ve ever read.
I heard a quote from somewhere: “Don’t complain to someone putting too less salt in food if you can’t cook”. Hands down Michael Jordan or any of the aforementioned players could absolutely slaughter us in any situation of basketball. So stop discussing whose the greatest, when all of them are the greatest because all of them are great, they all put in their lives and put in real dedication to their passion: The game of basketball.
http://www.landofbasketball.com/player_comparison/b/kobe_bryant_vs_michael_jordan.htm
http://www.landofbasketball.com/player_comparison/c/wilt_chamberlain_vs_michael_jordan.htm
http://www.landofbasketball.com/player_comparison/j/lebron_james_vs_michael_jordan.htm
http://www.landofbasketball.com/player_comparison/j/magic_johnson_vs_michael_jordan.htm
http://www.landofbasketball.com/player_comparison/b/larry_bird_vs_michael_jordan.htm
http://www.landofbasketball.com/player_comparison/j/michael_jordan_vs_bill_russell.htm
Those are just a few comparisons from names that were brought up. Overall, Jordan beat those guys in the majority of the categories listed. Most overlook Jordan’s defense play, but he was selected to the All Defense 1st Team nine times and steal leader three times. All while being a dominating force on the offensive side of the ball. Say what you want about him, the man is the GOAT and the numbers don’t lie. I’m just honored I actually got to watch him play in a time when the sport was actually exciting and fun to watch. Players cared about playing and not just out to get a big payday.
#11 best coach in the history of the nba?
I agree with most of the points, except for one. To say the teams were diluted; smh. How about in 1992, when the bulls faced the Suns in the finals? Barkley and KJ are not what I consider diluted. Also, I believe that Earvin Johnson very well could have been the greatest ever, if he wouldn’t have had to retire at age 32.
Lebron is the best of all time and you’re right mj is the animal goat
Just look at the author…does he look even close to being an athlete, let alone play basketball. The most baskets he’s probably made in his life is at chuck e cheese.
I’m only 36 but the best that I’ve personally watched on TV is Jordan hands down and today’s games are for sissies and whiners. Let today’s players play prison ball like back in the 80’s and 90’s and see if they can tough it out. Even point guards back then (i.e. KJ) played so much tougher than today’s guards.
This is some crap. Chamberlain, Russell and Kobe are qualified for the throne, but MJ is the greatest ever. Uh, 72 and 10 season. 6 rings, 6 appearances, 6 FMVPs. 5 MVPs. 14 All-Star Games. 3 AMVPs.
10 First team, 1 second team. 1 DPOY. 9 all-defensive first teams. All Rookie First team and ROTY.
10 scoring titles, 3 steals titles and 2 time dunk contest champion. Playoff scoring leader, bulls scoring leader, 4th all time in scoring. 23 retired by Bulls and Heat. And a buttload of college awards. Wilt’S 100 point game and 55 board game are amazing, but can’t compete with MJ.
Greatest of All Time is and will always be an opinion. Depending on whatever experiences or research you have done, you will reach some kind of conclusion that may or may not be legitimate. Now, my opinion is that Jordan was the best ever. Not only did I watch him and every possession in home games growing up but I’ve been a big NBA fan of all players active and inactive. No one matched up to his intensity, his giftedness and basketball IQ. MJ was the entire package. I have a deep respect for the other greats in the game and they all deserve their praises, too. But it’s just undeniable to have watched him play and see the things he was able to do on the court at such a high level that no statistic can truly reveal. To me, the greatest ever means a lot more than your hardware because I feel that it is only halfway to the truth. I’m not talking about highlight reels or top plays but having watched him play is a whole different experience. There was a commanding presence in his leadership, his superhuman athleticism, his knowledge of HOW to play the game, his relentless tenacity could not be spoken of solely by statistics.
The game of basketball has legends and they deserve a seat at the table. But Jordan was the crown prince of them all. His skills and intuition puts him firmly in that seat, in my opinion. I’ve played the game, studied the game and watched many games over the last 20 years. He is the greatest I have seen but Lebron is up there though not as fierce or coldblooded among other things.
You can’t compare team and expansion in the league you also can’t compare older players to younger players. . the rules change throughout the years teams are added different ways of training are added.. I don’t see how you can compare stats when the game is changing so much
You can’t challenge the fact that Michael Jordan isn’t the greatest because he played against older players who are already on their way out Tim Duncan is a great example for that
You can talk about how much Michael Jordan lost as a beginner in the NBA but you can’t compare that… LeBron also lost a lot and started younger and I can go on and on about how much this article makes no sense but I wont……. several players were greatest players at their time….just let that be
Jordan couldnt touch elgin baylor or oscar robertson and no one could stop wilt chamberlain according to oscar his speed and height were unstoppable. Kobe and lebron would get smoked. Kobe did get smoked in 98 lebron and kobe had the advantage of league making it easier to score as well.
Youre just looking at all at his negative performances how about the positive one guys, Pippen cant also win championships when MJ retired at 1994 common and if his not the G.O.A.T. WHO? Lebron common Kobe maybe a chance but for me its MJ.
this joker contradicts himself the entire article. If Pippen was so great, and the competition in the 90s was so awful, then why didnt the Bulls win it all when MJ retired?
oh yeah, cause the comeptition was actually really good and Pippen was just another all-star caliber player.
What a piece of garbage article.
I’m sorry but I have to disagree with most of your logic. The teams they beat in the finals were not overrated. Anything but. The teams that they beat to get to the Finals were just better and the Finals was less of a challenge. Mike was a ball hog? yes, at the early stage of his career. LeBron could get into the playoffs when his career started. What do you expect, a rookie to lead his team to the finals. Not to mention it was tough when MJ started in the East, you had the Bad Boys and the Celtics. Pippen was just an addition that helped Mike. Trust me on this, Pippen was no Wade. I don’t see any of your logic. You are giving us facts that are misleading. A rookie won’t lead you to a championship. That is simple. Do you really expect Andrew Wiggins to lead the Timberwolves to a championship right now?! Of course not. Why would you expect that from Jordan.
What a disgraceful and erroneous article. You tell me of any NBA team in history that dominated in a decade or era with no decent center. Michael Jordan is even greater for that reason. The bulls had no fine center in the 1990’s. Detroit’s NBA Championships in both 1989 and 1990 could not have been won without Bill Laimbeer, not one of the greatest but a fine center. Chicago’s centers didn’t even come close when Jordan and company was dominating the 1990’s. And Bird and Magic wouldn’t have championship rings without Parrish and Jabbar, and so on and so forth
you forgot something: a lot of jordan’s popularity comes from dunk contests, which have nothing to do with real games. jordan was a great dunker and scorer. and he was very good at steals. but people are fooling themselves if they don’t think that wilt chaimberlain is the best player in nba history.
also, you say that the ’95 – ’96 sonics had 2 good players: kemp and payton. what about schrempf?
Jordan, not the greatest but the luckiest…A Wilkins with a lot of lucks and no hair…
These are some of the terrible arguments that I hear over and over again. At this point, I’m too tired to argue.
who’s the best player in the nba then
I’m a diehard Pistons fan but your arguments don’t seem to be convincing… Some arguments you talk stats are not about greatness yet in another argument you use stats to undermine his greatness.. Plus you talk that Jordan had Scottie, well didn’t the other superstars like Magic Russel, Bird have teammates? Being great and winning a championship avoiding injuries all includes luck. Thats part of the game. So what? All other superstars won championships with a little bit of luck.
OK for all you young people
Wilt period
And EVERY CENTER he played against is in the hall of fame 10-12 teams
Bill Russell, Willis Reed, Walt Bellamy, Nate Thurmond, Zemlo Beaty, Wes Unseld, Elvin Hayes, Bob Lanier,
avg 50 point a game,
they said all he can do is dunk. started finger roll & Fadaway
said all he can do is score, leads league in assists
and rebounding forget it – 55 against Bill Russell
That’s when fragrant foul wasn’t around – 3 guys would grab is arms and still dunk
As for the idiot who said no 7 footers / that’s BS because the 7 footers now don’t want to get banged and play from outside. Old days were real centers / rebound / block shots (which they didn’t even keep track of) bill russell and wilt used to have 3 or 4 in one posession
And to the idiot who said avg was 6 feet / There wasn’t 1 person under 6 feet so how could avg be 6 feet
obviously a hater…hahaha..
so.. who’s your GOAT? Lebron? 2-4 record in the NBA finals? hahaha…
This article is so accurate. People don’t understand what makes a team win the game. Here’s how a player makes a team win:
Get your team more shot attempts, take away the opponent’s shot attempts, make your team’s shots go in at a more efficient rate, and make the other team shoot less efficiently.
Think about it.
Horace Grant and Dennis Rodman don’t get nearly enough credit. They were both better than Jordan on those Bulls teams.
Where did you get you sources? Google? If so you should never believe everything the internet says because there are some people who lie on the internet. Also you should try to summarys most of you paragraphs because I was getting really bored and I wasn’t even half way through the whole thing. You also need to learn who to get the reader into this because your a really boring writer, you need to work on you informative reading because your really bad at that. Overall, your writing is really boring and I hope you know that I keep on stated this because I want you to understand that it is. ?
So much stupidity here. Jordan couldn’t beat Pistons without Pippen, LOL? Pippen was already on the Bulls when Jordan faced the Pistons in the playoffs and it was Pippen’s weak mentality that held them back. Pippen would’ve been an also ran of Jordan hadn’t toughened him up. I mean who misses a Game 7 because of a headache?
Are you kidding me! Michael Jordan wasn’t a ball hog, he made everyone around him better.
I can’t think of any team without even an adequate center dominate like the Bulls did with Michael Jordan. Bill Cartwright, Bill Wennington, Luke Longley, et al were pathetic. It was basically a great team without a center with Jordan, Pippin, Grant, Paxon and Bj armstrong. The Celtics and Lakers would not have dominated the whole decade of the 1980’s without Kareem and Robert Parrish. and its doubtful the 89 and 90 champions Detroit Pistons would have won both without Bill Laimbeer at center. And Dr. J’s Philadelphia sixers i do believe would not have won the 82 nba championship without Moses Malone
This is the most ridiculous article I’ve read about the nba in my life. Clearly you don’t know the game. Never write about anything nba again. No offense. Sincerely.
The GOAT does not derive from pure statistics, it is futile to compare the statistics of a basketball player given that there are many other factors to be considered as to his role in a game.
MJ has inspired generations of kids to never give up. His attitude of playing the game to his very best amidst criticisms throughout his career, and his departure to baseball in honour of his dad, giving up all his had, and was asked by his NBA friends to re-join the league says it all.
GOAT of all time does not come from pure statistics in my opinion, it his his inspiration to a player and the beauty of the sport that he played with style and charisma.
The guy that wrote this article probably deserves to live alone for the rest of his life because of how disgraceful he was to every player that played with or against MJ in his era
First off most of what this guy says is right. The media told you Jordan is great and you stupid people fell for it. He does have a few things wrong though. The Trail Blazers, Jazz and Sonics were really good teams and the only reason the Bulls beat them because they got every call you can get.
He says Jordan only shot 46 percent against the Sonics. Well actually Jordan only shot 41 percent against the Sonics. He said Shawn Kemp had poor work habits? Really I guess that is why after his rookie season his points and rebounds increase for 6 straight years. Kemp got fat for the Cavs, In Seattle he was in great shape.
Sound like HATERS to me. Jordan is why the NBA is world entertainment instead of just American entertainment. The league was full of superstars when Jordan played, not just the handful we have today. For you stat lovers; stats can’t pass the eye test. Jordan dominated the league. He changed the history of our world with a ball in his hand. His name and brand will be here forever. Unlike whoever wrote this article.
Ask whoever YOU think the greatest basketball player of all time is (Magic,Bird,Russell,Bron,Kobe, Whoever) and they would say? Michael Jordan. Hands down the GOAT.
Props for making an article that draws interest. But get real.
do you even know basketball? All I have to go as far as when talking about pippen! Pippen was not drafted by the Bulls, he was drafted by the Sonics and then traded to the Bulls. Get all the facts correct before making a crazy stupid story.
i think this is not about statistics. its about the way mj played. he put the game to a higher level at that moment. he made his team better and there was no one to stop him…. because of his talent!
MICHAEL JACKSON WAS THE BEST ENTERTAINER EVER.
END OF STORY !!!!
Oops. wrong thread.
This is among the most useless articles ever written. Clearly not a basketball player and just a fan. I could point to 50 parts of this article that show how little you know. Stick to writing about topics outside of basketball.
Nearly this entire post made me laugh. Really, we are mocking Jordan for not being able to carry the Bullets in 2 seasons? He ran them nearly at .500 and in 2002 they were 10 over .500 before his injury. He was a ballhog? So his rookie and sophomore year he took a lot of shots, he shot at 50% (!) for his ENTIRE career, hardly not bad for a shooting guard. The teams the Bulls defeated in the finals were overrated? Well, the beat their ENTIRE division soo they were the best the NBA had (and i could go over how many superstars were on those teams but that would take awhile). What other excuses do you have Jackson for trying to come up with why Jordan isn’t the best player ever? Regardless, his statistics, performance and leadership on the floor disprove nearly all of your theories. But, you are paid to write, and write you did.
First of all they had different rules back when Jordan played second of all lbj is no where near Michael Jordan’s level third of all Lebrun can’t even shoot his field goal percentage is what 30% and I could give thousands of more reasons why Lebrun isn’t as good as Michael Jordan
Horrible article .
Advice to the ‘journalist’ who wrote this. Go to a website called YouTube.com and search for some of his games played in – especially those battles against the Pistons where he lost . In the 1989 series you hear the commentators saying even then ‘ the greatest player in the game , Michael Jordan ‘ . And that was during the primes of greats .
First of all, why would anybody want to follow you after you write this horrendous article about the game’s greatest player. Secondly, HAVE YOU EVER EVEN WATCHED JORDAN PLAY or are you just one of the millions of people brainwashed by the Lebron-loving-new-age of basketball where every time someone falls down it’s reviewed to see if a “flagrant foul” was committed. Last time I checked, the Pistons’ of the 90’s were one of the nastiest teams you’ll ever find in the history “non-contact” sports, and players such like Liambeer and Mahorn are some of the hardest-nosed players ever, and those players were only given a handful of suspensions. In today’s game, you can’t box out your man without getting called for some BS foul. I would really appreciate if you, Jackson Summer, would share to the well-deserving fans where in gods name did you get these facts or even the sheer idea to write such an article. Also, how is he only known for his shoe more than his play? The only reason people knew what his shoes were were because everyone wanted to watch him play, the best player in the NBA, and they saw his shoes. My final point is; the fact that he has a career ppg average of 30.1 speaks for itself, but he also boast almost 30 career achievements which include Defensive Player of the Year and All-Defensive Team 9 times and 3 time NBA Steal Leader, 5 time NBA MVP, and 6 time NBA Champion where he was Finals MVP EVERY SINGLE ONE, which all contradict your point that he wasn’t a great defender or didn’t win as many championships or MVPs as other player. He was the greatest player on the greatest team, (1995-1996’s 72-10 season) and every other sports writer, columnist, sports radio/tv personality, or ANY PERSON THAT HAS EVER WATCHED AN ACTUAL GAME OF BASKETBALL UNLIKE YOU MR. JACKSON SUMMER will agree with me.
Wow. I don’t know WHERE to begin to tell how ignorant this article is. I can only sum it up by saying that you wrote this because, A, you are a Lakers fan or, B, because you were born in the 90’s and, therefore, don’t have a great handle on the game of basketball back in those times. You can only write an incredibly disrespectful article (to the talent level and game play during the 90’s versus now where everyone just jump shoots all day long and play no defense) by looking at the game during that time from afar.
This author of this article was a completely bias
LeBron is a flopping little girl
I hate when people say Jordan couldn’t win without Pippen. It’s Jordan couldn’t win with an inexperienced un-matured Pippen. Pippen was on two of those Bulls teams that made it to the conference finals and lost to the Pippens. If you are going to say jordan could not win without pippen you better be specific. Pippen didnt just show up as a rookie and lead them to a ring.
Jordan needed a good player in his back pocket because he was not a player good enough to win titles by himself
Can you name me the last time any single superstar won a title solo? Go ahead, I’ll wait.
Michael Jordan is awesome but not greatest of all time.
FAXXXX
Is that why Jordan was 1st round 3rd pick player who didn’t even play for a high school or collage team, and if he is a ball hog why did he average around 5.5 to 6 assist a game, that is the average for most point guards today and Jordan was a shooting guard. He was also a team leader for every team he played on. Jordan need Scotty Pippin but it is better when you actually have weapons on your team and don’t have to deal players that don’t know what they where doing. Plus Jordan went 3 final conferences and won with out Pippin, before Pippin was Drafted, and why is Jordan’s Jersey retired and hung up in the bulls stadium and Pippins isn’t.
Because Pippin did not receive enough credit for the titles, everyone loved Jordan because he was so popular and that lead to everyone giving him the credit.
That is true pipen did help michel jordan he was his awesome side kick with out each other they would not be were they are to day
It’s official……….you’re an idiot!!! Oh yeah, and u know nothing about basketball. You only had one reason correct. Give it up!
i would love to know who you are talking about
U are the dumbest thing that ever walked the face of the earth if u don’t think mj is the goat no competion
This is stupid! Winning games isn’t all about 1 person. you cannot say Micheal was not better then everyone else just because he dosn’t have as many rings. Completely stupid
And doing things that no one else will ever do or ever be able to reproduce, with awesome gameplay and amazing moves game after game and humiliated great players specially great defenders likes Dikembe Mutombo, David Robinson, Dennis Rodman, Alonzo Mourning… and by the way, what Pippen have won without Micheal Jordan?
Author is clearly a moron
My issue with your article is that you clearly didn’t watch basketball in the 90’s, and you have done inconclusive research. You dismissed all 6 finals teams Jordan faced and you couldn’t be more off. Magic Johnson may have been on his way out, but not due to age or diminishing skills. He was 31, just out of his prime and averaging 19 ppg along with 12 apg. You’re gonna pretend like James Worthy and Bryon Scott were washed up at 29 years old? You’re gonna pretend like Vlade Divac and Sam Perkins weren’t a formidable presence down low?
You fail to even mention Terry Porter a former NBA All-Star in your description of the Blazers team. You talk about the Suns as if they are a one man team. They had the reigning MVP Barkley as well as one of the best PG’s in the league(Kevin Johnson) and All-Star shooting specialist Dan Majerle. You didn’t mention Hershey Hawkins or Schrempf both former All-Stars that had great years in Seattle. If those Jazz teams were so much better in the 80’s how come they never made a Conference Finals until the 90’s? Those jazz teams were stacked, and at their peak.
You cannot honestly say Jordan is the GOAT technically you cannot call anyone the GOAT just because of the fact there are all time greats in every single basketball position. Like comparing Bill Russel to MJ they are two different positions, and have different play styles, but are very good at the game. I did kinda say you cant call anyone the GOAT but in my opinion athleticism is what stands out the most in my opinion LeBron was a much better athlete than Jordan but Jordan was a better player all around. Some of these facts are true a lot of people are saying all the good teams back then but they are basing the good teams off of one good player from each team, in order to win titles you need at least 3 solid players who have good chemistry on the court like the 91-98 Bulls or the 2011-2014 Miami Heat. winning rings is not something to base a player on some all time greats had no rigs but were some of the greatest players to live ( John Stockton, Vince Carter, Dikembe Mutombo, Dominique Wilkins, Reggie Miller, Allen Iverson, Patrick Ewing, Karl Malone, Charles Barkley) Now I hope my information I have stated is false but you get my point some of these players could have played as good as Jordan if they were surrounded with good players notice I said some not all but some. Like I said Jordan is one of the greatest but being the GOAT is a biased opinion.
I meant I hope my facts are not false
hi
Every player mentioned here played standard basketball and many were the greatest at it. Only one player played non-standard basketball and excelled at it. That was Larry Bird. Who else is falling to the ground behind the backboard and puts up a shot over the board for it to swish? Who else passes behind his head like a granny shot? All of those other greats had great athletic skills that made them look like better basketball players than they actually were. Bird’s basketball skills in isolation are unparalled.
IDIOT!!!! IDIOT!!!! IDIOT!!!
I don’t mind the argument and actually agree. To me, Jordan is third behind Magic and Bird. My argument for Magic can be summed up in the 80 finals when he took Jabbar’s place and scored 42 as center. At any rate, the writers arguments do have flaws. Utah, for example, had their best franchise seasons in the 90s, not 80s. From 95-98, the Jazz won at least 55 games. Still, there’s arguments that are valid. The NBA was notoriously bad in the 90s. Jordan never had a true rival like bird and magic were. If the argument was that Jordan made his teammates better, then why did Pippen have his best two PER seasons while Jordan was gone? Jordan needed Pippen. I will say the Bulls were smart enough to know their weaknesses. Rodman was brought in because of the issues the Bulls had in the interior in the 95 loss to the Magic. On a side note, I want to add how much of a crock it is when people disregard the Rockets two titles. Olajuwons stats in those runs rival any champions stats,and the Bulls weren’t beating them with Grant in the middle.
None of them! The only one will be Mister Magic Johnson.
You dislike for Michael Jordan has made you delusional, because of your unhealthy dislike for him you’ve consistently tried to convince yourself he isn’t the best player of all time. Maybe it’s been going on for so long, maybe you even believe the personal little wonderland you created, however the rest of us, were still here i reality!
Almost every living player that was mentioned in this article and in the comments has said that Jordan was the greatest to ever play. Go watch some of the interviews
Michel jordan is one of the best players by far may be when he left the bulls still did good so being good when one of star players leave is a bad thing please someone tell me that does not sound crazy that means with out their star player that team suchs that proves the bulls are the best.
ESPN never told me Jordan was the greatest of all time, my eyes did.
It drives me nuts when people say will LeBron (or whoever) become the greatest of all time. As IF iit’s something they could accomplish if they win more rings than him or get more accolades.
It has nothing to do with accolades, it’s a matter of skill. MJ got the accolades because he was the greatest player, he’s not the greatest player because he got the accolades.
You can’t one day wave a magic wand and suddenly LeBron is a more skilled player than MJ.
Guess what? MJ was the GOAT the second he stepped on the basketball court. It wasn’t something he achieved once he had enough accomplishments. It’s quite simply, who he was
I would say Stephen curry is the best nba player of all Time. And couse I said that Michael shot 50.1% at three pointers curry shot 59.1
The only thing Steph curry “could do” COULD do is shoot in 2015! Now he’s a chock, and misses every shot and gets blocked every now and then, the only other thing he could do is pass. MJ could shoot, rebound, defend, and do everything else BETTER than curry. Idiot
Actually Stephen Curry is better than Lebron,Lebron is the goat because he keeps being on different teams,so……
Let me get your math correct. Stephen Curry>Lebron James. Lebron James is the greatest of all time. What step is above “GOAT?”
…….magic Johnson is the second best NBA player!!!
This writer is truly a jordan hater. Jordan dominated the league when their were 30 teams, handchecking, tough defense and with the dreamteam players opposing him. Wilt and Bill won championships in a league with ten teams and with only two teams that were competitive. No one mentions the fact that jordan only played 14 seasons with all the achievements. Kobe played 20 seasons and still haven’t achieved equally amount of awards or success as jordan. Lebron is on his 14 season and needs to play at least 6 more seasons in hopes to getting as much awards and rings as Jordan. The most amazing thing is that jordan did it in ONLY 14 seasons. Remember he missed 2nd year due to knee injury and he he retired after his 3rd ring. Came back in the end of the season of 95 then retired again in 98. So six rings six finals mvp 10 scoring titles in 14 seasons he played is why he is the goat. So do the math. If kobe and lebron retired after playing 14 seasons where would they ranked?
MJ is by far the best player in the NBA and the expansion teams were weak? Miami and Orlando were weak? Miami with Alonzo Mourning Tim Hardaway Dan Marjerle and Jamal Mashburn is weak? Orlando with Shaq Penny Nick Anderson 3D Dennis Scott and Horace Grant is weak? Those teams were stacked. He played against Magic Johnson and James Worthy in the Finals. He absolutely dominated them. The next year he plays against Clyde Drexler Terry Porter and Buck Williams. The following year he plays against Barkley KJ and Dan Marjele. Then against GP Shawn Kemp Hersey Hawkins and Detlef. Then has to defeat Stockton and Malone with the flu. And his final championship he wins Game 6 on his own on the road with an injured Scottie Pippen. MJ is so much greater than everybody else. The guy who wrote this article is the kid who went home and cried to his mom cuz he missed a layup and was called fat. He had on a Jordan Hersey the day that happened.
His best point is #3. Beyond that I think this is weak.
Clearly the person who wrote this article is a moron there were 2 or more stars on every team mj beat he is the goat and had he not retired the bulls would have won 8 straight yeah i said it
R u cerious?!?!?!?!?!1 we all no Brain SKalbrinee is the bet of all tie
People. Always forget the greatness of phil jackson the brains of the whole team phil coached a group of showbiz egos to six titles not to mention. Tamed rodman.jordan was good but a good coach makes a great team. Id take Duncan,oljuwan or Robinson before jordan anyday
Jordan was definatly overrated i think the 88-89 pistons were far better Chicago just had a better coach. Id rather have isiah Thomas,david Robinson tim Duncan and ESPECIALLY. Dwayne wade my favorite. Of all time over jordan
you are so dumb, like i can tell you’ve never seen MJ play what the heck
This article only seeks web traffic. Many would disagree, the author knows.
Two things about Jordan: 1,he made everyone around him better … He made darn sure of that; 2, he was the best defender ever, and D is what really matters.
Because he made them feel like crap and did it with a lot of negative reinforcement. And that second statement is a little ridiculous considering Pippen was on his team and the reason they had a good defense.
This article was definitely written by a 90’s baby. Every team Mike faced was a great team coming out of the west. Besides the 70 win season it was not a for gone conclusion they were going to win.
Portland Trailblazers, Utah Jazz, Supersonics, and maybe the Suns would toss any of today’s teams up. Not to mention the Knicks and Pacers of that time the Bulls had to beat just to get to the Finals. It’s a no brainier. The Knicks would beat any Lebron team. And I hate the Knicks. Lol
Lebron LeGoat James is the true GOAT. Carries teams on his back and looking to get another ship this year. #LeGOAT #LeBron
#10 immediately won my skepticism of the authors understanding of the competition. Remember the season when the Chicago Bulls won 72–10. The Toronto Raptors (and Orlando) were one of the few teams that year to defeat the Chicago Bulls. I watched that game. There was no diluted pool of basketball players in that era. So, #10 is dead wrong. I won’t be reading the rest of this article, sorry.
Jordan is the best only because he never lost in the finals. The reason Russell is not great because if he played when there were a three point line he would have gotten destroyed trying to play his defense.The greatest or number one is someone who has never lost ad always won in the big stage those are the ones that can really be called great. Jordan in the finals is like a law student getting perfect scores in every big test that counted. Or a lawyer winning every case and never losing one. What i am trying to say is that Jordan never lost when it counted and the rest have. No matter who he played winning is hard in the nba and he did it on the biggest stage, without losing.
What about can they stop him
Clyde also had Terry Porter, he was an all star that year. Also Sonics only had 2 good players? They won 64 games that year and had several good veterans like Hersey Hawkins, Detlef Schrempf, Sam Perkins, and Nate McMillan. They also were going against the best bulls team, the 72 win monster and managed to take that series 6 games. Sonics also split with them in the regular season, definitely one of the more underappreciated teams in history.
I think Lebron has a decent chance of becoming the greatest if he wins tonight and a couple more titles but as of now I would agree on MJ being the greatest, only over Magic because of far superior defense.
The person who came up with list could possible be the most ignorant person on planet earth.
Everything is relative. Lebron is the best in the league at this moment in time and that is all that is 100% true. Jordan was great and played in an era that has the makings of a lucky slight advantage. If you listen to the reasons in today’s media about Lebron not being the GOAT and some placing him out of the top 5 or 10, can also be related to Jordan/every other player in the history of the game. People have their opinions and that is all this thread and this article are all about. Stop being so salty and trying to defend players that didn’t play against each other, on an even plane, and with no variables that gave others the upper hand. “MY OPINION”, and that’s all it is just like everyone else’s post, is that if Lebron and Jordan where in the league today Lebron would find away, with his team, playing as a team, to beat Jordan! Because Jordan would turn into a ball hog just like every other game and Lebron would have another triple double and the win.
Labron James isn’t even in the top 25 of all time and a overall selfintitled King. With the terrible state the nba is in they have no choice but to say he is the greatest of all time. They need to promote this second rate product. There is no way I can even watch a game anymore. It’s poor shot attempt after poor shot attempt and even Poorer defense and talent( we’re going to Europe now that’s how bad it is. There are no fundamentals anymore) There is no soul to this game at all. It makes me sick. Even labron himself is chasing Jordan. He knows who the greatest is and it isn’t him. His finals record is dismal at best. The greatest ball hog of all time is Kobe Bryant, cancer for your team and completely egotistical. The one positive in Kobe game was his style ( Labron has zero) and grace( Labron also zero) but that being said it was all stolen Jordan moves. He ripped teams apart with his selfishness and me 1st attitude. He helped bring down one of the greatest franchises of all time with his greed. There is no comparing the two. Kobe played way longer took way more shots and barely pasted Jordan in points scored. Charles Barkley would eat Labron up in his prime. And we all know Charles could not get past Jordan. The fact is the league is a shadow of its former self all you young guys and kids just don’t know any better. You listen to these ESPN fools, past players, who are payed to promote this product and you lap it up like thirsty dogs. Jordan made everybody on his team better Labron hand selects the best talent in the league and barely gets it done. Kobe plz he’s the worst teammate ever and his final tour was a joke. The simple truth is u can’t compare them at all. Just think if Jordan plucked the best players and took them to Chicago. Plus the game isn’t even the same anymore. And it makes me sad, I lived the nba now I have a hard time to watch a game, there so many bricks I could build a house. In the finals I watched at least 8 missed lay ups some players make not a single shot. I’ll give you my top 10 . 1)Michael Jordan 2) Wilt chamberlain 3) Bill Russell 4) Oscar Robinson 5) Magic Johnson 6) Kareem Abdul jab bar 7) Shaquille o’neal 8) Hakeem the dream 9) Julius Erving 10) Larry bird. Labron doesn’t even make the top 25. Maybe not even top 50 players of all time. ( If you go by titles no is better then Bill Russell not even close ) ( Jordan made you better, did he hog it a bit, sure but who else would you want to have the ball. Jordan has more game winning shots then Labron has graceful dunk highlights) Today these overpaid baby’s say they went too war with blood, sweat and tears. Plz it’s a game u make millions your not getting shot at. Your not a warrior your not a gladiator your a entertainer stop disgracing our fallen by comparing yourself to them.
Dude, LeBron not in the top 25 or 50?
Wow, have you seen the guy play the game of basketball. I guess his weakest part of the game is free throws, and maybe a jumper. Doesn’t matter though his all-around game passing ability, he could average 10 to 15 times a game if he wanted. I’m not going to compare him with George Mikan who I never saw play, or will or Bill Russell excetera excetera. But not top 25 or 50, whatever your smoking , Give It Up. Peace
Absolute trash piece. And then to try to insinuate that your “research” is unbiased and “everything can be looked up online” is bullshit. You can’t read online the intangible assets that he also brought to the team. His IQ was otherworldly, but your research won’t tell you that. Because you tried to spew it back, rather than dissect and digest.
First, look at the player and his role on the team. He is a SG primarily. His job is to shoot the ball. Dunk. Score. He did that. Better than anyone else. His secondary job was to make sure he didn’t get scored on. He also did this very well. Facilitate the ball was another of his jobs. While not as important as the first two, it becomes the MOST important once the other two are covered. This is the stat that got them over the hump of not getting past the first round. You claim he was a ball hog, because you didn’t watch him. And you don’t understand triangle ball. Jordan still avg over 5 apg. As a SG, that’s good by ANY measure. Ask Kobe, another person who has had the same lie attached to his name. Kobe is #29 (on 4.9 Apg) of the top leading assisters in NBA history.
Given that many years, Jordan may have been top 20 with Lebron. Aside from that though, the style of play (triangle) was too free flowing to have any ONE player getting the assists. It was REAL team ball and one Dominator. And yes it took time to get to that point. And yes it took the addition of players that he could then mold for him to go on a 3 year streak/leave come back/remold another squad/another 3 year streak.
The difference between him and Lebron though, (aside from the obvious win/loss pct) is that Jordan never left to win with other established players. If anything, if you seriously wanna say he didn’t win til Pippen, well great players bring players to them. Not the other way around. Wade had his ring already. And Cleveland had just grabbed 3 years worth of #1 picks before he went home. And STILL traded away for more established Stars. And STILL he didn’t get it done his first go around either time.
You are not a hog if you succeed
You call Lebron the GOAT? I disagree… Lebron couldn’t win a championship without joining an already championship caliber team. He joined the HEAT with Wade, Allen and Bosh. Then returned to CAVS with Kyrie and Love. MJ never choked in the finals. Lebron choked 4 times already (and counting).
Your an idiot editor. Jordan is the GOAT. Point blank.
Your second to last comment makes no sense! Or are you suggesting there are more than four or five teams that have a shot at a title each year? Because if you are, you know NOTHING about sports, every sport has five teams MAX that are true contenders for the crown!
All I gotta say is Jordan couldn’t win without pippen, Lebron took that team full of basically D-League talent to the finals in 2007 against an overly matched spurs team, he did it in 2015 when love and Irving went down he single hadedly almost went to 7 games against the warriors & then after falling behind put on arguably the best finals performance ever (been said by plenty of NBA legends & sports analysts).. LeBron has proven he can carry a team, Jordan never actually did that, he never carried his team to a winning record until Scottie got to Chicago, LeBron is the best player because of the chip on his shoulder, everybody expects him to win and when he doesn’t win in the finals it’s like 1 loss is equal to 2 , no one expected Jordan to, LeBron is set to a higher expectation level than Jordan ever was
the author of this article is obviously a 16 year old who knows nothing about nba history. rofl
These points are spot on. In fact, I don’t know how someone could dismiss Wilt or Russell as the true greatest. Their numbers are insane even by the 60s standard. Scoring 100 points while managing to get almost all of the rebounds in a game against amateurs is a superhuman achievement in its own. Wilt did that consistently against professionals and still lost to Russell.
You say MJ is better, get out of here.
I think point 2 and 4 show that it’s hard to say that MJ’s achievements came with serious help from Pippin and Rodman, and that the decision if he is better than Kobe or Bron is purely subjective, moreover, saying he is better than Wilt, Russel, Hakim or Kareem is absurd.
For the author all the players you compare like magic,bird,bill russell,lebron,bryant,etc,. They are all GOAT in their era and we have to respect how they talented they are. The point is how they affect to your game if you play basketball and how much you enjoy if you watch them play. That’s why for me Michael Jordan is considered one of the greatest player of all time including bryant,lebron,and more. I love them all. I love basketball.
The reason that the Shaq’s Orlando Magic lost to any of Michael Jordan’s Bulls’ teams is because of the fact that Shaq and Hardaway had beef. You 13 year olds who never watched Kareem Abdul-Jabbar play live with the Lakers, I’m going to tell you something, there is a reason that Kareem is the all time leading scorer and Jordan isn’t. This is a great article and it gives some great reasons.
Did you ever see Michael Jordan play?
Or better yet have you played basketball?
A fearless assassin that would destroy you on the court not in terms of War.
He would dunk on big man Without Fear and stare them down. (Ewing)
All the other great players in the league couldn’t get a championship because of him, Ewing,Malone/stock, Barclay and probably a few that I’m forgetting.
Much like LeBron you can do anything on the court. But unlike LeBron he would (kill) you. not literally you and LeBrons too nice.
I know era’s matter and the people that saw John Havlicek play probably thought he was the best.
And he was pretty clutch, lmAo
The bottom line is if you ask the players that played against him, he is from a different planet , far above any Earthling. Peace
Jordan had to wait for bird and magic to exit their primes in order for him to win. It happens to every player. That doesn’t take away ones greatness. For example, think of Lebron and Kobe. Kobe and Shaq kept losing to Utah and San Antonio until Jordan retired. You can’t have players just enter their primes when someone else is dominating the league. Same with Lebron, his Cavs kept losing in the eastern conference because of Boston and Orlando. They were dominating the late 2000s. After Kobe won his fifth ring, Lebron went to Miami and dominated.
You are the dumbest person ever and clearly don’t know a thing about basketball or the G.O.A.T. MJ
jordan has a losing record against Bird and Hakeem…
Jackson Summer’s G.O.A.T. is Larry Bird, Kevin Mc Hale, Dirk Novitzki..
To all Wilt/Russell backers.
The number of that era were super inflated. There were 10 starting centers in the league the year Wilt averaged 50/22rpg. Only Russell and Walt Bellemy were over 6’10 and Bellemy was a rookie. Bellemy as a rookie averaged 32 points and 19 rebounds per game that year. Wayne Embry was a 6’8 center that averaged 20 points and 13 rebounds per game. No one bothered with defense and fg percentage was usually terrible because they ran up and down the floor chucking up shots all game long and missing them. This led to the super high rebounding numbers and point totals.
Wilt’s fg percentages were very low for what was by far the biggest center in the league. Wilt shot 40 shots per game and 17 free throws per game to average 50 points per game. He shot 50 percent from the floor. About 5-8 percent worse than you’d expect a 7’2 285 pound center playing against 6’8 guys to shoot. In 1987-88 MJ averaged 35 ppg on 24 shots and 11 free throw attempts while shooting nearly 54 percent from the floor and 84 percent from the line. Add 16 shots at 54 percent and 6 more free throw attempts at 84 percent. By doing that Jordan’s 35 ppg becomes roughly 55 ppg. As a 6’6 guard. On a team where everyone knew they had to stop him and only him to beat the Bulls. In an era what was the rise of the bad boy Pistons, ushering in the era of body slam defense, hard fouls, hand checking and the Jordan Rules.
Now, go look up shooting guards. See how many of them shot more than 10 shots per game and shot better than 50 percent from the floor in a given full season. Then see how many shot 52 percent or more. Jordan shot 52-54 percent from the floor for 5 consecutive seasons. At the height of the Bad Boy era…while playing in their division.
Reggie Miller – HoFer known as one of the greatest shooting SGs ever. Never shot 52 percent in a season in his career.
Jerry West – HoFer, NBA logo. Never shot 52 percent in a season in his career.
Kobe Bryant – some foolishly compare him to MJ. Never cracked 48 percent in his career for a season.
Earl the Pearl Monroe – HoFer, top 10 sg all time by most accounts. 0 seasons over 52 percent.
Maravich – nope
Drexler – nope
John Havlicek never topped 46 percent from the field,
Iverson never even close
You can look for a long time. Only George Gervin was able to be that proficient from the SG position. But he was not known in any way, shape or form as a defensive player.
That’s where MJ separates. As a shooting guard he was the best defensive player in the league and it wasn’t even close. He averaged 3.2 steals and 1.6 blocks per game one season while averaging 35 points. Chris Paul had lead the league in steals a record 6 times. Chris Paul has never averaged 3 steals per game in a season. If you took each of their best steal seasons and stacked them side by side, Chris Paul would have led the league in steals 0 times.
Look up current shooting guards and find one that’s averaging even 1 block per game this year. You won’t. Dwane Wade leads all SGs this season at 0.6 bpg. Which is a fairly high number. To put that 1.6 bpg (he also had a 1.5 bpg year) stat in perspective, DeAndre Jordan currently averages 1.7 blocks per game and he’s known as perhaps the best defensive center in the NBA. Jordan averaged over 1 bpg 4 times.
Simply put, listen to Magic, listen to Bird, listen to Barkley, Reggie Miller and the slew of Hall of Famers. Jordan is the was, is and will be for G,O.A.T.
Hi people
All around Michal Jordan is the goat. Are you jealous are you???????????????
if jordan were born in this era he would be 100 times better than he was back then
Also, if not for him, todays stars wouldn’t even be half as skilled as they are. He changed the game.
MICHAEL JORDAN IS THE ALL TIME BEST!! That’s that.
10. Why is it Jordans fault that the league decided to expand in the 90s? Oh wait, it isn’t. The 90s had plenty of great talented teams like the Magic, Pacers, Jazz and Supersonics so that BS excuse makes no sense.
9. MJ couldn’t get Washington to the playoffs because the talent around him weren’t mature enough to follow his lead, he did however play at just as much a high a level as he always did despite his age which makes his argument of being the GOAT even better.
8. As if a lot of other players have never been a huge ball hog before? Jordan developed into an even better player with the help of Phil Jackson.
7. Is it really soo hard for people to figure out why the Bulls got the top 3 pick in 1984 in the first place? They were 27-55 before Jordan got there which means they were a rebuilding team so why would you expect him to win a championship? He got them to the playoffs and never missed a playoff one time as a Chicago Bull. Further favors his GOAT argument. Scottie Pippen was good but he was no superstar that the entire league were bending over backwards to have to have so people need to stop overrating him for the sake of downplaying Jordans leadership.
6. This is just ridiculous. How are they overrated?
Let’s see
Lakers: It’s not Jordan or the Bulls fault that Worthy wasn’t as young as he used to be. That’s life people get older. If that’s the case it’s not Jordans fault that the Wizards couldn’t get to the playoffs with him so you contracted yourself article writer.
Blazers- They may not have been full of superstars like this writer is clearly so biased about considering he’s trying to downplay them despite their success of getting to the Western Conference Finals in 1991 and to the Finals in 1992 despite losing. This writer has no clue what he’s talking about.
Suns – You keep saying outsider this and that player the team were nobodies which proves you really don’t know squat about these teams other then the stars but in reality Kevin Johnson was a very good underrated player, Dan Majerle, Tom Chamers, Danny Angie and
the rest of the team had some of the best team chemestry you’ll ever find on a team hence why they got to the finals in the first place. Not just because Barkley won MVP.
Sonics: Once again shows you know nothing about the NBA of the 1990s saying the samething that the team only had 2 good players which is far from true. Payton and Kemp were the stars but there was also Sam Perkins, Hershay Hawkins, and Nate McMillion. You may not know who they are but actual basketball fans that know what they’re talking about do.
Jazz: Not Jordan and the Bulls fault that Mark wasn’t there, and clearly the Jazz didn’t miss him much considering they were able to get to the championship round 2 years in a row without him.
As we can see you don’t make a lick of sense in any of your ramblings about any of those teams. The Bulls, or Basketball in general.
5. Actually he was a great playmaker. He may not have dished it out as much as point guards did because well…He wasn’t a point guard so that wasn’t his job in the first place. He did however pass it when it was necessary which helped the team win in many year games.
4. Again the Bulls were a rebuilding team in the 80s. 27-55 before Jordan got there so clearly that should tell you something. The Bulls needed time to put the pieces together and then develop them just like any other team. What were the Pistons doing before Isiah and co arrived? Nothing. They didn’t win a single championship before the Bad Boys squad fully developed so are they overrated too? no. What about the Celtics? 6 year stretch of no championship before Bird came along and led his team to that title, and before Magic the Lakers hadn’t won a title since 1972. Championship teams take time to build. If you don’t know that then you don’t know basketball and really have no business writing articles about the sport.
8. Ok? and so does Jordan. Very valid points such as the many I pointed out earlier in this topic. Clearly you’re just a biased anti Jordan with no sense at all.
9. 1998 NBA Basketball was just fine. The 90s stars were aging sure but you had the young players like KG, Kobe, Duncan, Iverson, Marbury, Ray Allen and many more keeping the interest alive and fun going into the early 2000s. The only one that was bored must have been you. Oh well.
10. Why wouldn’t the Bulls be a good team? They didn’t break up 1 player retired and Pippen was still there to pick up the pieces in his absence. This is not even close to a valid argument to make on Jordan not being greatest of all time. It does however show that you contracted yourself once again considering you’d just made Pippen look like a Million bucks earlier in the writing and now you’re discrediting him and the whole team. All because Jordan was no longer on the roster.
Very horrible article.
NO one beats Jordan out. He was too competitive. He was too much of an all round player. He leads the Bulls all time in assists. He also could have gotten more assists if he had had better quality of players. You forget that Michael played with a bunch of marginal players until Grant and Pippen. And when they came into the league, they weren’t the great players they would eventually become. 6 titles against half a dozen top 50 players? 6 for 6 is hard to argue against. No one else during that era was 6 for 6. The Jazz arguably had a better team than the Bulls. They weren’t 6 for 6. Also, Magic, Kareem, Larry Bird, Isaiah Thomas, Charles Barkley, Tim Duncan, Shaq, D Wade, Kobe. None of them were 6 for 6.
No offense to the author, but this argument against Jordan is awful. I’m not a huge MJ fan but he dominated and had a will to win that only GOATS have. His fade away was unstoppable and he was lock down d in playoffs. I wasn’t around to see Wilt, Kareem, Russell etc…but in the modern NBA era, nobody touches MJ’s dominance. BTW, I was a Magic fan growing up. MJ=GOAT.
Just came across this article and wanted to chime in and agree with you. When I see articles like this, more often than not they were written by younger journalists that didn’t really experience NBA basketball before 2000, especially when I hear things like Jordan didn’t take the Bullets to the playoffs.
When you know nothing about NBA, only follow the media you’ll put MJ as the GOAT and Lebron as one of the greatest….. innocent mistake due to media brainwash.
I personally put Bird as the GOAT, I think he personifies the most true and pure basketball ever.
Michael benefitted from the times and the boom in popularity and big money basketball was enjoying. From a marketing standpoint Stern could see that that main reason for the rise of the nba, Magic &Bird, were going to eventually retire and he needed something to follow that act so MJ was hyped, overhyped. In a different decade he would have been mentioned as ONE of the greatest ever. No, greatest ever can be defined by one of three criteria. Most dominant force ever, offense and defense: Wilt, easily. Best all around player ever: Magic with Wilt close by, or winningest: Russell. MJ falls short no matter how you measure it unless its hype.
As someone who has watched thousands of basketball game I find Your article’s use of arbitrary facts and trifling opinions, dooms it to laughable waffle. It would take at least 4 hours to write a refutation to completely address all the problems in your opinion piece.
I get tired of people making comments without studying to make sure of the veracity of their statements. Jordan and LeBron are light years apart. Jordan’s accomplishments are just much greater, in less time. I heard Nick Wright make the argument that if you compare both men’s careers at age 31, LeBron does alright against Jordan. Does he, now? First, that is a misleading argument because it suggests that Jordan and LeBron played the same amount of years from their rookie year to age 31. They didn’t. Jordan missed three of those years because he was in college. LeBron came straight out of high school. Then, Jordan missed 64 games his second season with a broken foot. But this is where it gets good. Jordan’s accomplishments STILL exceed that of LeBron’s. Jordan at 31 had about 9-10 years in the league. In that same time frame, LeBron had 13. But Jordan still ties him in championships, finals mvps, and accounts for more points. He has a higher Player Efficiency Rating and also has some amazing achievements LeBron can only drool over., like 7 scoring titles, Defensive Player of the year, and3 steals titles. LeBron has never amassed anything like that.
I neglected to add in my previous comments that LeBron would have one more regular season MVP over Jordan if you look at both men’s careers at age 31. But Jordan had stiffer competition in the MVP department. Larry Bird was considered the greatest small forward of all time before LeBron came into the league. He was winning his third MVP in a row, in Jordan’s second year in the league. Then Magic took over, winning three of the next four MVPs. If neither of them were playing when Michael came in, MJ would have had at least 3 more MVPs, giving him 8 total. Add the MVPs Barkley and Malone won because of voter fatigue and Jordan would have had maybe 9-10 MVPs! LeBron has not had to battle the two greatest players at their position in history at the same time! And that didn’t include the Bad Boys of Detroit and Isaiah Thomas.
The reasons are obvious to true, serious students of the game. MJ benefitted from being in the right place at the right time. While certainly one of the greatest ever, I can name three greater. Wilt, Magic, and Kareem.
Very well prepared, presented, and accurate analysis. No way does Jordan’s teams beat the best of the 60’s, 70’s, or 80’s. Also not better than the best of the 2000’s or 2010’s.
They may have won a title or two, but very unlikely more.
You are so very dumb.
“The Bulls were just as good as before after his first retirement”
THEY DIDN’T EVEN MAKE THE FREAKING FINALS!!!!!! They won the finals 3 straight years before MJ’s brief baseball sabbatical, and then won it 3 more years in a row after he came back.
“He was a huge ball hog”
The dude averaged 5.7 assists for his career. He took 30 shots a game in ’86-’87 because his 2nd best teammate that year was a young Charles Oakley. He only had two teammates that were double digit scorers. 4.6 assists on that team, I mean c’mon. Let me see anyone else in the top 10 all time other than Magic average more than that.
“Michael Jordan Couldn’t Get Past the First Round of the Playoffs Without Scottie Pippen”
Pip’s stats his first year in Chicago: 7.9 points, 3.8 boards, 2.1 assists. Not only that, Pip only played 20 minutes. How much of difference can you make in 20 minutes? Pip’s better career winning percentage was BECAUSE he played with MJ. MJ was alone his first 4 years in the league, and still managed to get the Bulls to the playoffs. He constantly lost in the 1980s because there were 3 other all time great teams: The Bad Boys, Showtime, and the Celts.
As for other players qualified for the throne, Wilt’s 50 point season was overrated, but we’ll get into that another day, Kareem always had 2 or 3 good teammates, and still never got to 72-10 like Jordan did when he got good teammates.
Can we stop with the silly, “look at how smart I am — I am not agreeing with the obvious — that Jordan is the greatest player ever. Anybody that doesn’t see that has some kind of personal agenda or just doesn’t like Jordan. Great offensively and defensively, eventually became better than anyone else in history at making players around him better, great passer, great rebounder for his position, and easily the best clutch player ever. (If you have any doubt about that, go watch the last 5 minutes of every playoff game he ever played in.) For Pete’s sake — what more could you want in a player?
As for what other legendary players thought about him, Hubie Brown did an informal survey when the 50 greatest players ever (at that time) got together and here is what he wrote: ”
But nobody in the history of the game has dominated at both ends of the floor like Michael Jordan. Therein lies the difference. Michael Jordan simply leaves the game as the best player ever to play, and I don’t think there is any argument over that. At the 1997 NBA All-Star Game in Cleveland when they celebrated the top 50 players in NBA history, it was interesting because it was nearly unanimous among the players was that this guy is the greatest player to ever play. To me that thought is interesting because of its absolute nature. “